Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Bigwormgraphix
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Regional Forums > USA - Northwest / Pacific Northwest


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-09-2014, 09:10 AM   #1
christianchevell
old school chevy rodder
 
christianchevell's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,588
Wongs performance vancouver...the place to go

Having just had my car tuned with a cam install and stainless power headers added to my CAI intake and putting down 490 rwhp on a mustang dyno I am happy with the service I was given by wongs performance engineering in Vancouver. That's all my mods to get to490 on the conservative dyno...yes I have .675 springs and 7.425 rods a ls2 dampener but am using the stock oil pump ( melling), stock harmonic balancer, and stock single roller timing chain. I would have had to spend more to change over items I would have otherwise worried about and paid for dropping the k member and pan and other parts but went with what was recommended by the g.m. expert.
I may in the future swap the timgin chain for a katech over time and the oil pump when some day I get a fluidamper and have the spring strength measured but that's down the road many many miles of happy motoring.
I am a older hot rodder who used to build his own chevy engines all the time, yet know that I needed a tune and why not do it all at once. So for 1250 cam install, 300 header install, and 550 dyno tune I am very happy.
I got the best TSP cam, and bought all the parts myself and saved on Washington sales tax that way. I now have my torque management tuned down, skip shift eliminated, custom air to fuel ratio, custom WOT fuel, quicker fan operation, and basically everything else custom curved to make my cars engine optimal and make the car perform.
It has been a pleasure talking with Mr.Wong and knowing cars as I do and knowing he knows his stuff, he is the man for the Portland area. I will be posting my car results with a video maybe and link to his shop in the general area Wednesday when I pick up my car...( anticipation is killer), he has a facebook page I will put the link here.... And good luck to you all here in the northwest , Go Seahawks!!!! My recommendation is to use his services as being from Salem I have searched all over this area to find him the most reasonable and best tuner and electrical engineer mechanic. And you should check out his site it has tons of vettes as he owns a vette, and a zl1 and many Camaros being built........ even a nickey 1000 h.p. Camaro. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Wongs...g/115667950915
http://www.wongsperformance.com/index.html
__________________
2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

Last edited by christianchevell; 03-09-2014 at 09:26 AM.
christianchevell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 02:30 PM   #2
keving2873
 
keving2873's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS RS
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 701
I have gone to Tom for all of my work and I couldn't agree more. He is simply top notch when it comes to his work. And for being a one man shop, he even seems to be faster than some of the other shops available around the PNW that have multiple techs. He is worth the drive if you live a ways away from him.
__________________
2023 Black ZL1 **Awaiting Allocation**
476whp 455trq / Tuned by Tom Wong
CAI Intake with ADM Scoop, Borla ATAK cat-back, ARH 1 7/8 Headers and HF Cats
Custom Comp Cam 231/234 114LSA 617/598 lift, Katech timing chain
Apex Catch-can
VMAX Ported Throttle Body
20" Niche Essen's wrapped in Michelin PSS 315/295
keving2873 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2014, 05:25 PM   #3
DroptopZ
I'm your huckleberry...
 
DroptopZ's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 2SS/RS, '88 IROC vert
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 548
There was a time when I would have agreed with this sentiment, as Tom tuned my car and did a fantastic job... But I sent a family member down that way and the car came back dirty and fingerprinted with 28 more miles on the odometer as well as some fresh swirl marks on the spoiler.

I know every shop has their good and bad days... But I doubt I would ever go back now.
__________________
'88 IROC-Z vert (14.9 @ 92.3) //
'10 2SS/RS LS3 - 423 RWHP, 418 RWTQ

DroptopZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2014, 06:10 PM   #4
christianchevell
old school chevy rodder
 
christianchevell's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,588
well if the man building the car does not test drive it....... and the dyno moves the odometer too. I am happy and now my car is on his web page for face book with my 490 hp on his mustang dyno......... And I did note the proper protection all over the open engine bay of my car even though I have clear shield. You being in Seattle may have a lot more options, for here he is the bomb. And I did drive a way for him.
__________________
2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop
christianchevell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:20 AM   #5
DroptopZ
I'm your huckleberry...
 
DroptopZ's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 2SS/RS, '88 IROC vert
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by christianchevell View Post
well if the man building the car does not test drive it....... and the dyno moves the odometer too. I am happy and now my car is on his web page for face book with my 490 hp on his mustang dyno......... And I did note the proper protection all over the open engine bay of my car even though I have clear shield. You being in Seattle may have a lot more options, for here he is the bomb. And I did drive a way for him.
I definitely hear what you're saying... but it was pretty clear it'd been driven outside. I know that the dyno is going to move the odo, but there was fresh dirt, fingerprints on the door and swirl marks on the spoiler. If this were just a friend I would have written it off as someone who was just making a mountain out of a mole-hill, but I know the way this person takes care of their car, and normally no-one touches it without him being there to watch the whole thing!

Tom is a good tuner and like I said, every shop has its good and bad days... I just wanted to share my experience as well. He was able to coax 423 RWHP out of my LS3 with just LTs, cats, intake and his tune... which is a bit above others I've seen on Mustang dyonos. The tune has held great for 3+ years and no issues.
__________________
'88 IROC-Z vert (14.9 @ 92.3) //
'10 2SS/RS LS3 - 423 RWHP, 418 RWTQ

DroptopZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 02:05 PM   #6
w2010abm
 
Drives: 69 camaro prostreet, 2010 abm 6m
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: richland,wa
Posts: 53
stock LS3 tune

I to am intrested in getting a tune. Did any body run their car on the dyno befor the tune and after the tune to see what difference the tune made?
w2010abm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 02:19 PM   #7
1KillerSS
Too much is never enough!
 
1KillerSS's Avatar
 
Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Toledo,OH
Posts: 4,149
Send a message via Skype™ to 1KillerSS
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroptopZ View Post
I definitely hear what you're saying... but it was pretty clear it'd been driven outside. I know that the dyno is going to move the odo, but there was fresh dirt, fingerprints on the door and swirl marks on the spoiler. If this were just a friend I would have written it off as someone who was just making a mountain out of a mole-hill, but I know the way this person takes care of their car, and normally no-one touches it without him being there to watch the whole thing!

Tom is a good tuner and like I said, every shop has its good and bad days... I just wanted to share my experience as well. He was able to coax 423 RWHP out of my LS3 with just LTs, cats, intake and his tune... which is a bit above others I've seen on Mustang dyonos. The tune has held great for 3+ years and no issues.
i completely agree with you about people driving your car...yet after the work your describing i would like to see him drive it home for all i care to make sure it was good to go....what if they had drive-ability issues not all things can be cured on a dyno man

as for the other stuff that would be enough to drive me crazy swirl marks and dirt...should have had your car detailed IMO
__________________
AGP TT kit, 54/57 Forged rotating assembly, Custom grind cam... Dual nozzle meth, ID850's, Livernois dual fuel pumps, ECS BAP, 25% UDP, 3 inch Magnaflow catback with X pipe, Mantic 9000 clutch, DSS 1000hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, ZL1 rear end, solid subframe bushings, HE differential offset bushings, BMR Trailing arm, BMR toe rods, Lingenfelter LNC-2000,SJM Line Lock. 747 whp 714wtq


Build thread
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...55#post8107855
1KillerSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 08:01 AM   #8
christianchevell
old school chevy rodder
 
christianchevell's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,588
apparently driving the car which is a blessing to be done by the tuner in your opinion is a hazard to be avoided in a way that most of us would beg to have it done but someone who looks at finger prints from their engines dirt and grease as a big fault and the tuner test driving it as a no-no really does not deserve to ever have that person work on their car ever again. Yes Tom drove my car, and your damn right I am glad he did, I had to wait over a hour when I dropped off my car because he went to lunch and was test driving a corvette, If he did not test drive it he would be negligent in performing his job in my opinion. If it had a tuning problem I am sure he would have fixed it say a flat spot in its performance.... or stumbling at a rpm under load etc by re tuning the cars calibrations. This is someone who can adjust every option in the cars tune including the air fuel mixtures at every rpm, tuning off traction control and tuning out traction management, changing the rev limiter.

I defer to his many years of judgement as he is the expert, If you think he should go wash your car when he is done fine you should pay $100 a hour to have your car washed. If you look at the dyno my car is protected on the sides and the front over the clear bra. the things you mentioned are very pitifully small compared to what I have heard of other tuners doing and the quality of their work.
And do you honestly think he spent time trying to buff something out of the Camaro? get real, time is money, my car came to him dirty with road spray from a heavy rain and 60+ miles up I-5 should I expect it detailed when I pick it up? God forbid should he touch the car with a finger........ If he could I am sure he would have remedied the situation of told your where they could go for their next bit of work, and someone that anal I would never let them near the car while I was working on it....and I picked all my parts myself and verified every thing in the tune and install beforehand so call me anal.

I think this is more to do with age and the blame game that is part of todays narcissistic culture club. But hey that's just me a old hot rodder who knows you have to break some friggin eggs to make a omlet and WTF, if the owner of the car noted every thing on his condition of a car like a home depot delivery person when dropping off a appliance checking every wall and door opening in a house...well I for one would want to charge that person extra, and to work on their car and not test drive it...well I might just tell them forget it, go away, your a liability I am not willing to take........BUH BYE, don't let the door hit you in the arse.
Gee Figure that........ Insert picture of: highly paid G.M. expert electrical engineer with over 20 years experience wiping a dirty finger print or three off a spoiler from opening trunk for parts or to disconnect a battery, OR insert picture of: illegal alien , or minimum wage flunky standing by with squirt bottle and rag to clean up any finger print ASAP and then detail car for owner....... you make the choice.

And so think what you will his facebook page with the ZR1, the z06's, the nickey 1000 h.p. Camaro, the many high dollar builds way beyond my car and this is the comment you come to give about how he tuned your car nice but a friend car.... oh my god he touched it and drove it........... Man ROFL WTF? I guess this guys Camaro must have been made of solid gold, or its on a pedestal so friggin high........... whats gonna happen with road rash or a door ding or god forbid, goose poop.... lol

I am just glad he posted on facebook how my car drove so it puts me at ease when I go to get my car finally today. And for the most radical LS3 cam you can get having him call it suitable for a daily driver yet going 60 in sixth it have a little cam surge is something I do want to know before I drive it, and also that he the expert recommends no more than this for a cam for the ls3 to be a daily and I am happy my choice being a old hot rodder is the bomb and I made 490 on the mustang dyno with only a cam, CAI, and headers. In other words for about $4500 I have 560+ conservative measurement flywheel .....and so I have about the power of a zl1 for the fraction of the cost and with better economy old school naturally aspirated dream of a engine LS# 3 is the bomb just as the hot rod and other tech mag's said.

And many who worry about if they will over cam are leaving a lot on the table, and may have little experience as I have had since building my own SBC cars for decades to drive and hot rod. And I am say a ported throttle body etc....away from the 500 rwhp club, or say a dynojet dyno away from the what club?...lol 490x10%= 49+490=539, or 490x15%= 73 + 490= 563 I know there is at some times on some dynos a great disparity between them and dyno jets inflate numbers from 1% to 10-15% from what I have read.

So who knows, I am just happy I got the right guy who made sure to fine tune my ride and I made the right parts choices myself for my car to get these numbers which BTW is awesome....especially if you compare it to others with their flying monkey cam and night ranger cam etc...lol Mine is called a kick ass and take names cam....... lol well enough rambling, I have been excited as hell to go get my car and its T - two hours, 55 minutes until I hit the road with my wife. And this mofo helped make my dream come true, back off.
__________________
2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

Last edited by christianchevell; 03-15-2014 at 09:37 AM.
christianchevell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 08:12 AM   #9
1KillerSS
Too much is never enough!
 
1KillerSS's Avatar
 
Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Toledo,OH
Posts: 4,149
Send a message via Skype™ to 1KillerSS
Quote:
Originally Posted by christianchevell View Post
apparently driving the car which is a blessing to be done by the tuner in your opinion is a hazard to be avoided in a way that most of us would beg to have it done but someone who looks at finger prints from their engines dirt and grease as a big fault and the tuner test driving it as a no-no really does not deserve to ever have that person work on their car ever again. Yes tom drove my car, and your damn right I am glad he did, I had to wait over a hour when I dropped off my car because he went to lunch and was test driving a corvette, If he did not test drive it he would be negligent in performing his job in my opinion. If it had a tuning problem I am sure he would have fixed it say a flat spot in its performance.... or stumbling at a rpm under load etc by re tuning the cars calibrations. This is someone who can adjust every option in the cars tune including the air fuel mixtures at every rpm, tuning off traction control and tuning out traction management, changing the rev limiter. I defer to his many years of judgement as he is the expert, If you think he should go wash your car when he is done fine you should pay $100 a hour to have your car washed. If you look at the dyno my car is protected on the sides and the front over the clear bra. the things you mentioned are very pitifully small compared to what I have heard of other tuners doing and the quality of their work.
And do you honestly think he spent time trying to buff something out of the Camaro? get real, time is money, my car came to him dirty with road spray from a heavy rain and 60+ miles up I-5 should I expect it detailed when I pick it up? God forbid should he touch the car with a finger........ If he could I am sure he would have remedied the situation of told your where they could go for their next bit of work, and someone that anal I would never let them near the car while I was working on it....and I picked all my parts myself and verified every thing in the tune and install beforehand so call me anal.
I think this is more to do with age and the blame game that is part of todays narcissistic culture club. But hey that's just me a old hot rodder who knows you have to break some friggin eggs to make a omlet and WTF, if the owner of the car noted every thing on his condition of a car like a home depot delivery person when dropping off a appliance checking every wall and door opening in a house...well I for one would want to charge that person extra, and to work on their car and not test drive it...well I might just tell them forget it, go away, your a liability I am not willing to take........BUH BYE, don't let the door hit you in the arse.
Gee Figure that........ Insert picture of: highly paid G.M. expert electrical engineer with over 20 years experience wiping a dirty finger print or three off a spoiler from opening trunk for parts or to disconnect a battery, OR insert picture of: illegal alien , or minimum wage flunky standing by with squirt bottle and rag to clean up any finger print ASAP and then detail car for owner....... you make the choice.

And so think what you will his facebook page with the ZR1, the z06's, the nickey 1000 h.p. Camaro, the many high dollar builds way beyond my car and this is the comment you come to give about how he tuned your car nice but a friend car.... oh my god he touched it and drove it........... Man ROFL WTF? I guess this guys Camaro must have been made of solid gold, or its on a pedestal so friggin high........... whats gonna happen with road rash or a door ding or god forbid, goose poop.... lol

I am just glad he posted on facebook how my car drove so it puts me at ease when I go to get my car finally today. And for the most radical LS3 cam you can get having him call it suitable for a daily driver yet going 60 in sixth it have a little cam surge is something I do want to know before I drive it, and also that he the expert recommends no more than this for a cam for the ls3 to be a daily and I am happy my choice being a old hot rodder is the bomb and I made 490 on the mustang dyno with only a cam, CAI, and headers. In other words for about $4500 I have 560+ conservative measurement flywheel .....and so I have about the power of a zl1 for the fraction of the cost and with better economy old school naturally aspirated dream of a engine LS# 3 is the bomb just as the hot rod and other tech mag's said.
And many who worry about if they will over cam are leaving a lot on the table, and may have little experience as I have had since building my own SBC cars for decades to drive and hot rod. And I am say a ported throttle body etc....away from the 500 rwhp club, or say a dynojet dyno away from the what club?...lol 490x10%= 49+490=539, or 490x15%= 73 + 490= 563 I know there is at some times on some dynos a great disparity between them and dyno jets inflate numbers from 1% to 10-15% from what I have read. So who knows, I am just happy I got the right guy who made sure to fine tune my ride and I made the right parts choices myself for my car to get these numbers which BTW is awesome....especially if you compare it to others with their flying monkey cam and night ranger cam etc...lol Mine is called a kick ass and take names cam....... lol well enough rambling, I have been excited as hell to go get my car and its T - two hours, 55 minutes until I hit the road with my wife. And this mofo helped make my dream come true, back off.


i think for the money the car should be cleaned anyway...but not by him thats for sure..other than that
__________________
AGP TT kit, 54/57 Forged rotating assembly, Custom grind cam... Dual nozzle meth, ID850's, Livernois dual fuel pumps, ECS BAP, 25% UDP, 3 inch Magnaflow catback with X pipe, Mantic 9000 clutch, DSS 1000hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, ZL1 rear end, solid subframe bushings, HE differential offset bushings, BMR Trailing arm, BMR toe rods, Lingenfelter LNC-2000,SJM Line Lock. 747 whp 714wtq


Build thread
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...55#post8107855
1KillerSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 12:44 PM   #10
DroptopZ
I'm your huckleberry...
 
DroptopZ's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 2SS/RS, '88 IROC vert
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 548
This was not on a Camaro. It was on a brand-new 2013 ZR1 with 3,000 miles on it. For the money he paid to get it tuned, tweaked and taken care of, I would hope that it would not come back with new scratches all over the carbon fiber, finger-prints and grease marks.

I get that you're defending a tuner you like--that's fine. I think Tom does good work. Bottom line is that this car was not respected the way it should have been. When I go to a shop, I expect that the person will treat the car as they would their own. My Camaro came back perfect and was test-driven as well, but it was not 28 miles... and it was not returned to me with fresh dirt all over. Certainly, it did not have any scratches.

I'm not saying I expect a tuner to wash a car after test-driving it... but they sure as hell better not return it with damage, or with finger-prints all over it. That's common sense dude, get real. I'm not talking about a few rain-spots because the car had to be driven a few miles.

My family-member did not say anything to Tom, precisely because he understands that things happen... but I doubt he's ever going back there, either.

Again: I am not saying that Tom is a bad tuner, or that this is a normal occurrance. I am posting my family's experience (both positive and negative). I think it's important to share that. I had zero incident with my Camaro.
__________________
'88 IROC-Z vert (14.9 @ 92.3) //
'10 2SS/RS LS3 - 423 RWHP, 418 RWTQ


Last edited by DroptopZ; 03-12-2014 at 12:47 PM. Reason: Added additional info
DroptopZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 08:13 PM   #11
christianchevell
old school chevy rodder
 
christianchevell's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,588
well my car was dirty and in the same condition when I got it back without a scratch and drives friggin awesome and pulls like a mofo. And yes there were two vettes there one a zr1...
__________________
2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop
christianchevell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 08:21 PM   #12
1KillerSS
Too much is never enough!
 
1KillerSS's Avatar
 
Drives: AGP TT SS [COTW] 4/20/15
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Toledo,OH
Posts: 4,149
Send a message via Skype™ to 1KillerSS
who cares if it was a ZR1 or a freeking VW Beatle....money is money and so is the amount of work performed...point is that when i take my car in for major work i want it quality controlled and that includes a few miles on an odometer ....the hand prints and dirt i agree should be taken care of for the money he spent but the whole attitude of "not gunna go back" is a little harsh ....i feel the same way about my 1SS as he does about his ZR1 or my old 1969 camaro convertable that i restored by hand....i understand about pride and joy i also am a realist and i know when i smell BS
__________________
AGP TT kit, 54/57 Forged rotating assembly, Custom grind cam... Dual nozzle meth, ID850's, Livernois dual fuel pumps, ECS BAP, 25% UDP, 3 inch Magnaflow catback with X pipe, Mantic 9000 clutch, DSS 1000hp axles, DSS aluminum driveshaft, ZL1 rear end, solid subframe bushings, HE differential offset bushings, BMR Trailing arm, BMR toe rods, Lingenfelter LNC-2000,SJM Line Lock. 747 whp 714wtq


Build thread
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...55#post8107855
1KillerSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:24 PM   #13
DroptopZ
I'm your huckleberry...
 
DroptopZ's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 2SS/RS, '88 IROC vert
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1KillerSS View Post
who cares if it was a ZR1 or a freeking VW Beatle....money is money and so is the amount of work performed...point is that when i take my car in for major work i want it quality controlled and that includes a few miles on an odometer ....the hand prints and dirt i agree should be taken care of for the money he spent but the whole attitude of "not gunna go back" is a little harsh ....i feel the same way about my 1SS as he does about his ZR1 or my old 1969 camaro convertable that i restored by hand....i understand about pride and joy i also am a realist and i know when i smell BS
BS? Hmmm... I'll post my dyno sheet tonight if you like, and I will take a pic of my middle finger next to the swirl marks on the spoiler...? Also, I understand about a 1SS being treated the same as a ZR1. OP commented that the Camaro must be made of solid gold, which is why I made the point.

EDIT: Best I got before I can get down to their house. Good enough? Check my albums if you want more proof... Guess I'm faking the prior black 2010 ZR1 and all the photos from Wong's uploaded in 2010?

PS: blacked out my last name on the dyno... didn't really wanna post that on a forum.


__________________
'88 IROC-Z vert (14.9 @ 92.3) //
'10 2SS/RS LS3 - 423 RWHP, 418 RWTQ


Last edited by DroptopZ; 03-13-2014 at 11:47 AM.
DroptopZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2014, 02:08 PM   #14
DroptopZ
I'm your huckleberry...
 
DroptopZ's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 2SS/RS, '88 IROC vert
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Seattle
Posts: 548
sorry, that comment may have come off the wrong way. Internet chest puffed up a little too much when I heard 'bs.'. Got a little sensitive.
__________________
'88 IROC-Z vert (14.9 @ 92.3) //
'10 2SS/RS LS3 - 423 RWHP, 418 RWTQ

DroptopZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.