Z/28 vs GT500

[syr74]

Originally Posted by blackZbandit

I didn't say pushing the limits, I said pushing the limits as to how much power they'll pump out of it. I just don't see Ford making a 600hp/550tq GT500 with a full warranty. I'm sure they'll play the tweaking game some more after the Z/28 debuts, but seriously... not that much. Unfortunately if they did the Camaro's got the Vette as a glass ceiling, but I guess fortunately for Chevy the Vette exist as the glass ceiling!

I think you're assuming 600+hp in this application will be more difficult to warranty than the existing package when that isn't really the case. The reason Ford is happy to warranty that TVS blower swap is because, despite the power increase, the overall package is arguably more reliable than the stock setup. Why? Because the TVS is that much better than the traditional roots setup and makes more power due to greater efficiency, not due to being higher strung or running significantly more boost.

Put simply, Ford has a lot more room to move with the GT500's 5.4L before reliability becomes a major concern, the bottom end really is overbuilt to a point that makes you prop up an eyebrow. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if they could easily get into the 800hp neighborhood before engine durability became an issue at all if that was what they really wanted to do.

Of course, the LS9 arguably has as much room to play with the only additional shortcoming for the Camaro being the IRS, which could be beefed up as well if at a price. The question there being how does GM explain the added cost of the ZR1 over the Z06 if they drop the same engine into a Camaro without asking a similar premium? And obviously, the can't ask a 40k premium for the LS9 in a Camaro. To my mind that is the only real sticking point to seeing a LS9 in the Camaro Z28.

[lil_red_v6]

Originally Posted by EnfuegoZ28

That would be a good poll as long as there's an option for both. I would love to have a GT500 and a Z28 in my garage, though it will probably never happen. I don't understand why people get so upset over this comparison because most people will rarely bring out a GT500 or a Z28 and will drool over either one when they see one.

then add a both section also. and true, just like the vette zr1 u dont see much of em around.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

certification


Yeah, ford was getting their a$$ handed to them by the vette back in the early 60's. "The AC was never considered a production car, and other than the motor, it was NOT a ford by any stretch of the imagination. A better apple to apple comparison previously was the t-bird.

But the most powerful of all Cobra roadsters, the 427 and it's variants, was absolutely a Ford-Shelby designed product. According to both Ford and Shelby that car was designed by Shelby American with assistance from Ford engineers with the chassis and body then being produced by Auto Carrier in England. Supporting this notion, other than the fact that both Ford and Shelby say this is what occurred and AC never disagreed, is the reality that Ford and Shelby were in a great position to design such a car (they were already working on the much more complex GT program) while AC arguably was not.

As for not being a production car....both the 289 and 427 models were produced for sale to the public by Shelby American, a company then licensed as an American automobile manufacturer, complete with Shelby American specific serial numbers. Exactly what about that makes this something other than a production car?

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by syr74

But the most powerful of all Cobra roadsters, the 427 and it's variants, was absolutely a Ford-Shelby designed product. According to both Ford and Shelby that car was designed by Shelby American with assistance from Ford engineers with the chassis and body then being produced by Auto Carrier in England. Supporting this notion, other than the fact that both Ford and Shelby say this is what occurred and AC never disagreed, is the reality that Ford and Shelby were in a great position to design such a car (they were already working on the much more complex GT program) while AC arguably was not.

As for not being a production car....both the 289 and 427 models were produced for sale to the public by Shelby American, a company then licensed as an American automobile manufacturer, complete with Shelby American specific serial numbers. Exactly what about that makes this something other than a production car?

The body was always an AC Bristol, (no matter who hammered it), the motor was Ford, the chassis & drivetrain was whatever he could get his hands on.

If Shelby America was a mfg., the car couldn't be a ford. Under the rules at the time Shelby never built enough cars to qualify as a production car.

[Crowley]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

The suspension could probably use a little work. But the drive train is already strong enough to take the extra power, hence ford warranting the GT500 at 660hp as is.

[lil_red_v6]

Originally Posted by syr74

But the most powerful of all Cobra roadsters, the 427 and it's variants, was absolutely a Ford-Shelby designed product. According to both Ford and Shelby that car was designed by Shelby American with assistance from Ford engineers with the chassis and body then being produced by Auto Carrier in England. Supporting this notion, other than the fact that both Ford and Shelby say this is what occurred and AC never disagreed, is the reality that Ford and Shelby were in a great position to design such a car (they were already working on the much more complex GT program) while AC arguably was not.

As for not being a production car....both the 289 and 427 models were produced for sale to the public by Shelby American, a company then licensed as an American automobile manufacturer, complete with Shelby American specific serial numbers. Exactly what about that makes this something other than a production car?

but it was a Austin Healey car body.

[Sleestack]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

The suspension could probably use a little work. But the drive train is already strong enough to take the extra power, hence ford warranting the GT500 at 660hp as is.

If the suspension on the 2011 GT500 is similar to the aftermarket SVT Ford Racing Suspension and has enhanced control arm bushings, handling 660HP would not be a stretch....so you are correct, it is very little work.

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by lil_red_v6

but it was a Austin Healey car body.

was AC Bristol body.

.... Is the Panoz a ford?..... anyone?

[lil_red_v6]

im going to say no its just ford powered.

5.8l ford v8 capiable of 430bhp

http://www.panozauto.com/EsperanteGTSDetails.htm

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

certification


Yeah, ford was getting their a$$ handed to them by the vette back in the early 60's. "The AC was never considered a production car, and other than the motor, it was NOT a ford by any stretch of the imagination. A better apple to apple comparison previously was the t-bird.

I never said the AC Cobra was a Ford. Nor did I ever say it was a production car.

All I said was the AC Cobra was Shelby's car to beat the corvette. And it did, handily.

[motorhead]

Hey what happened to the GT500 Vs Z/28 thread. If I wanted a history lesson on the shelby I would go to their forum.

[blackZbandit]

Originally Posted by Napper

Hp is not the only key. having less Hp and running think about this. the CTS-v has acceleration number better than the GT500, and on a ring the behometh is a fatastic handler.

It has about the same hp, but is 500lbs more.
dreamed of having the HP and the balance.

My point exactly... the CTS-V is an absolute BEAST. Although I still disagree that Ford will boost the 5.4 that high, I do acknowledge that they can. My issue is that it's being said that the coming Z/28 will be outpaced by the GT500 in it's current form.I'm betting a matching 3.9 0-60 for the Z/28 and maybe a 1/10th faster in the 1/4 mile than the V... which beats the "2011" GT500.

[lil_red_v6]

we will just have to wait and see when the z comes out.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by blackZbandit

My point exactly... the CTS-V is an absolute BEAST. Although I still disagree that Ford will boost the 5.4 that high, I do acknowledge that they can. My issue is that it's being said that the coming Z/28 will be outpaced by the GT500 in it's current form.I'm betting a matching 3.9 0-60 for the Z/28 and maybe a 1/10th faster in the 1/4 mile than the V... which beats the "2011" GT500.

When going to the TVS blower over the Eaton they don't have to add boost to gain that 50-80hp.