Direct Injection Throttle Plate Removal?

[TommyTheCat]

Originally Posted by 6bangerBOOM

In theory this could be done. But the stock ECU for the LFX is nowhere near capable of handling this. The engine will stall if you remove your throttle plate. You would need to invest some serious money in hardware (governors, stronger HPFP, custom intake manifold, custom fuel delivery system) and tuning software into a very high risk/low return project. Maybe you should PM jason@jacfab. He might just be crazy enough (it says "mad scientist" under his name for a reason), and I know the guy has a spare LFX laying around.

If you're right about computer not being capable there would be no point

[6bangerBOOM]

On the upside of things, I did read a lot of articles on this today and learned quite a bit. So thanks, at least, for posing an interesting question.

[DSX_Camaro]

Again, we are talking about the LFX. And again, it seems you still have your throttle plate in your throttle body. Lol. This was never a question of "does it exist" or "is it possible" because yes, it exists and yes it is possible.

But you asked about the LFX. Which is why it seems I am basically repeating myself. Having maximum airflow at all times would be catastrophic. Plus the crankcase vacuum issue that you'd have to rectify. This would never be a simple removal job as it seems you are planning as 6banger said. (LFX fuel rail pressure maxes out at 1760? psi. Diesels can have around 44000psi. For example.)

[TommyTheCat]

Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro

Again, we are talking about the LFX. And again, it seems you still have your throttle plate in your throttle body. Lol. This was never a question of "does it exist" or "is it possible" because yes, it exists and yes it is possible.

But you asked about the LFX. Which is why it seems I am basically repeating myself. Having maximum airflow at all times would be catastrophic. Plus the crankcase vacuum issue that you'd have to rectify. This would never be a simple removal job as it seems you are planning as 6banger said. (LFX fuel rail pressure maxes out at 1760? psi. Diesels can have around 44000psi. For example.)

nope

Originally Posted by TommyTheCat

So as many probably know, lots of people remove the throttle plates on their diesel trucks, especially those Ford 6.0Ls. The throttle plate isn't necessary on direct injection engines
Has anyone deleted the throttle plate on a 3.6L Camaro or any other gasoline engine? Just curious if there would be any gains at all
I know gains are minimal on the diesels.

[911medic]

Originally Posted by TommyTheCat

If you're right about computer not being capable there would be no point

Well, a couple of things point to this being the case.

#1: While Seafoaming my intake manifold, I disconnected the PCV line from the intake manifold with the engine running, with the idea of spraying Seafoam in there. My engine died IMMEDIATELY when it began to suck unrestricted air into that port at idle.

#2: People who have had improperly ported throttle bodies (i.e., too much material removed leaving too large of a gap between the throttle plate and the TB wall) have had CELs, etc.

Clearly, unrestricted/improperly restricted air flow into this engine is not desirable, with the stock ECU parameters.

[Chris14RS]

This motor has been out long enough that if it was a good idea somebody would have done this already.

[speedygonzales]

Explain how the engine or more correctly, the PCM/ECM would change engine speed? Purely from the TPS? That is after the MAP sensor is programmed out?

For those discussing the vacuum level, the crankcase with a proper working PCV/breather system, will have vacuum regardless of whether there is intake vacuum or not. Albeit at a lower level. It will nonetheless still be there. Don't confuse intake vacuum with crankcase vacuum. Piston movement and the PCV/breather system is what makes crankcase vacuum.

[911medic]

Originally Posted by speedygonzales

Explain how the engine or more correctly, the PCM/ECM would change engine speed? Purely from the TPS? That is after the MAP sensor is programmed out?

For those discussing the vacuum level, the crankcase with a proper working PCV/breather system, will have vacuum regardless of whether there is intake vacuum or not. Albeit at a lower level. It will nonetheless still be there. Don't confuse intake vacuum with crankcase vacuum. Piston movement and the PCV/breather system is what makes crankcase vacuum.

The PCV system on the LFX (and LLT, I assume) is driven off of intake manifold vacuum. IM vacuum pulls air through the barb on the passenger side valve cover (and through a catch can, if equipped), drawing air through the crankcase and evacuating crankcase vapors and equalizing crankcase pressure/vacuum with atmospheric pressure. Make-up air is drawn in the "clean side" via the hose leading from the intake air tube to the rear of the driver's side valve cover.

That's what constitutes a "proper working" PCV system on our cars. Without it you may have crankcase vacuum at times, or excess crankcase pressure at other times. This can be equalized with a breather in lieu of the PCV system, but does not address the combustion byproducts and other crankcase vapors (other than by venting to the atmosphere, which is not EPA legal and is only a passive system vs the active system the PCV provides).

[DSX_Camaro]

Originally Posted by TommyTheCat

So as many probably know, lots of people remove the throttle plates on their diesel trucks, especially those Ford 6.0Ls. The throttle plate isn't necessary on direct injection engines
Has anyone deleted the throttle plate on a 3.6L Camaro or any other gasoline engine? Just curious if there would be any gains at all
I know gains are minimal on the diesels.

OP.

Originally Posted by 911medic

The PCV system on the LFX (and LLT, I assume) is driven off of intake manifold vacuum. IM vacuum pulls air through the barb on the passenger side valve cover (and through a catch can, if equipped), drawing air through the crankcase and evacuating crankcase vapors and equalizing crankcase pressure/vacuum with atmospheric pressure. Make-up air is drawn in the "clean side" via the hose leading from the intake air tube to the rear of the driver's side valve cover.

That's what constitutes a "proper working" PCV system on our cars. Without it you may have crankcase vacuum at times, or excess crankcase pressure at other times. This can be equalized with a breather in lieu of the PCV system, but does not address the combustion byproducts and other crankcase vapors (other than by venting to the atmosphere, which is not EPA legal and is only a passive system vs the active system the PCV provides).

Yeah, someone blew seals because their PCV system wasn't functioning optimally recently. It's another thing that was discussed in one of the FI threads. Breather with check valve = not enough air at idle, not enough evac under boost... ironically the breather is unnecessary too.

[911medic]

Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro

Yeah, someone blew seals because their PCV system wasn't functioning optimally recently. It's another thing that was discussed in one of the FI threads. Breather with check valve = not enough air at idle, not enough evac under boost... ironically the breather is unnecessary too.

I've posted at length previously about my RX breather and the issue I had with it and why I removed it. Won't be going that route again. Thank God I didn't blow a seal.