05-28-2009, 08:08 AM | #99 | |
Master of the V6
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Underrated engine ratings != driveline friction reduction to <9% levels That is my ENTIRE point -- all of these examples are showing how a motor is UNDER RATED from factory, rather illustrating some magical method of reducing friction 50% I guess you guys don't realize how huge a 50% reduction in the static loss through friction would be to a manufacturer.. I'll get into some actual math illustrating how bhp isn't a valid constant in a few of these examples. We can the "ego factor" to illustrate this too... I'll be back in a few hours |
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05-28-2009, 10:05 AM | #100 | |
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05-28-2009, 11:09 AM | #101 |
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Well proof is in the pudding as they say. Here is a 2010GT bone stock, running 13.36@105MPH. He had 3:73 install from the factory. Have to say that is a far cry from 14's...here is the thread.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...d.php?t=135615 Dyno numbers are...just that. Numbers. Its a whole different story on the track. |
05-28-2009, 11:12 AM | #102 | |
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refer to steps 1 & 2 1. We admit we were powerless over dyno results - that our posting lives had become unmanageable. 2. Acceptance etc... |
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05-28-2009, 11:17 AM | #103 | |
Master of the V6
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Here, let's rescope - since it seems that the actual discussion is getting skewed with data points that don't have relevance. Subjective: "V6 camaro dyno numbers are low" Scoping: Initial review - They're spot on for the AF mix, tire size, temp, dyno type and miles on chassis @ 18% (automatic) loss. I would expect these numbers to be combined with other future pulls from other cars, in order to get a collection metrics from which conclusions can be drawn. Contention: Car X only has 8% driveline loss... that is the "norm" Resolution: We've already shown that this is not the case with any production vehicle, 8% is a totally fictitious number based on the flawed logic that BHP calculations from the manufacturer are a constant. Rwhp numbers are used to compare with the horsepower claims of the manufacture (assuming we're talking about baseline pulls in a stock vehicle) in addition to calculating gains made by outside influences. This number can either be higher, or lower, than the manufacturer claims. In the examples posted, it's clear that the manufacture under-rated the power output of their engine in that specific chassis. It does NOT however illustrate, in any way shape or form, that the it was the driveline loss percentage that changes, rather than the initial evaluation of the bhp rating. If we need to, we can illustrate the inverse of this rwhp calculation.... that is, listing engine HP calculation based on torque output delivered at the wheels. If car X put down 300rwhp, without making any assumptions about BHP... are you going to assume it: -Has a "normal" loss of 8% - for a total of 324bhp or -Has a "normal" loss of ~15% for a total of 345bhp Given the fact that there is *plenty* of historical data supporting average loss >8% and <22%, the larger number is going to be the most accurate rating based on the metrics given. /Cliffs: We all bitch at each other, but yet the dyno numbers I posted haven't changed |
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05-28-2009, 11:19 AM | #104 | |
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05-28-2009, 11:25 AM | #105 | |
Master of the V6
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My 99 GTS ran a 11.9 the 2nd day I had it, bone stock down to the original pilot sports and air filters. Good times... miss that car :( |
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05-28-2009, 11:27 AM | #106 |
Master of the V6
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Sweet. If you end up buying an LS/LT, please add your numbers to the mix. Regardless of who says what when bantering back and forth, the end goal is still the same -- data collection on a new platform.
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05-28-2009, 11:41 AM | #107 |
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I'm sorry but what were we discussing here... Oh, yeah, that's right...v6 2010 Camaro dyno results!
What's all this banter about the super low friction Mustang V8 HP numbers???? In a v6 Camaro thread too...You'd think Mustang owners are scared of a lowly v6 Camaro....my how times have changed. Back to our regular "Camaro V6 LLT Engine and Powertrain Discussion"....
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05-28-2009, 11:41 AM | #108 | |
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05-28-2009, 11:42 AM | #109 | |
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Read the entire thread and you will see how this topic came up. |
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05-28-2009, 11:46 AM | #110 | |
Master of the V6
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If anyone else has an LS/LT (especially when the 6spds hit!) *please* get it up on the rollers or on the track I've got to try and get up to the rock here soon for some shakedown passes. Cheers! |
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05-28-2009, 11:50 AM | #111 |
Rolling along...
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I've been following the whole flippin thread. It diverged into the Mustang v8 numbers when this post was made by fdjizm: He started this threadjacking....
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05-28-2009, 11:54 AM | #112 | |
Master of the V6
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---- Mustang is rated at 300bhp Plants the rollers at 280rwhp Obviously the 304hp camaro should be higher! Failure point in the logic structure: ------ 300bhp mustang is not actually 300bhp, as proven (a few times now) to be higher based on pulls. The camaro on the other hand is *certified* at 304hp. Hugh difference when trying to use something that is variable as a known constant vs. a solid known constant... Good threadjack though. Like I said, in the end... I'm just posting up what I find as I go through this chassis. The only place to go is up from my initial numbers |
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