Road Driving Suspension Help

[strauchpete]

I have a v6 1lt camaro that I am wanting to get a better handling ride out of on the road. I live in missouri and anyone that has driving around here knows the roads are not that great and the longest strait stretch of road would be a bridge, we have very drastic curves around here some go down to 30 mph on the signs.

I love driving the back roads around here but im not to impressed with the cornering and handling abilities of the camaros stock suspension.

So I am asking you all for help on what I need or should do, I dont really want to lower the car because of again the roads around here dont want to rip off my front pumper. But when I do go out and play on the roads I want to be able to hug the corners and have good launching off the line.

[PfadtRacing]

Hi strauchpete,

Your concerns are similar to a lot of other members here on Camaro5. Sorry for the nearly identical response (to another recent member's thread), but your experience and questions align with his, and therefore the same recommendations can be made.

Not wanting to lower the vehicle, keeping the same suspension travel, eliminating body roll, limited/no racing, these are all characteristics of items that can be addressed by installing a good set of matched swaybars. This is a great recommendation, especially for a beginning mod, that wont break the bank. These are upgrades you would still want to pursue even if you were to install coilovers, so you may as well start there, and then address any perceived lack of performance after you get used to the new handling and balance of your Camaro. I really think you are going to benefit the most from this upgrade to start with. You may find that absolutely nothing else is needed to get the car to perform like you want it to!

Give us a call if you have any questions, on our products or other wise.

[Bruce@raymondsperformance]

The sway bars are a good place to start.The raduis rod bushing and rear sub frame bushings will also help with the handling of your car.If you are going to be launching your car from a stop the rear diff. bushings would be a good idea to upgrade as well.

[strauchpete]

Would I need new link arms too with the sway bars?
Also I have been alot of upgraded suspension parts like the trailing arms and ect like that. They dont seem expensive but would they help with the ride?

[strauchpete]

Also, I got a question what is the difference between all the different companies after market sway bars? What makes one company better then the other ect ect.

[2quick]

When looking for a sway bar things to consider would be how well matched they are. Are they going to give you the type of road handling your looking for. If your going to do more upgrades to your setup later, than an adjustable set is important. There are some on the market that are adjustable only 2 way in front and 3 way in the rear. Then you have some that are adjustable 3 way front and rear that give you more options down the road. Cost is also a consideration for some. Shop around and make sure you get the most out of your money. In most cases you can get the 3 Way adjustable front and rear bars for the same if not lees than the cost of the less adjustable ones. Hopes this helps.

[JusticePete]

The lowest hanging fruit on the Camaro is to improve the sub-frame bushes. The rear sub-frame can have a mind of it's own on a bumpy turn. Using Pedders EP1200 sub-frame bush inserts will settle that IRS down with no compromise in ride quality. That is the #1 modification that any Camaro owner will benefit from.

Sway bars are in many ways a personal choice. Many 5th Gen owners are put off by the lean in their new ride. The 5th Gen tore up the Nurburing in OE trim and we have personally tested the OE setup and found it will pull over 1G on a road course. It isn't so much the function of the OE bar as it is perception.

We offer a single front 27mm bar for this reason. It will dramatically reduce the lean compared to an OE bar. When the Camaro transition to understeer in a turn, a Pedders 27mm bar will increase the understeer. That is no problem as most 5th Gen owners are no complaining about understeer, they mention the lean.

Understeer is what mot drivers are used to. They know that if they let off the throttle or hit the brakes the understeer will go away. Performance drivers want their cars to be neutral or have an oversteer bias. That is why we offer two more bar sets. One is the very streetable 27mm front and 27mm rear. This is a great street bar setup with great balance.

The third is a 27mm front and 32mm rear. This setup will create what refer to as velocity induced oversteer and beg you to go faster and faster into a corner. This is our competition setup and designed for the most experienced track drivers that understand well how to deal with a car in oversteer mode.

What is the difference in sway bars?

Great question. They are hollow vs solid and heat treated vs not heat treated.

Pedders bars are solid. We use solid spring stock because it is more forgiving of anything less than a perfect bend. When you look at a sway bar take careful note of the bends. You will see the tube is usually smaller in the bend. This has a far greater impact on a hollow bar than a solid bar. The weakest point in any sway bar i the measure of strength in that bar, no different than a chain with the weakest link...

Pedders expects that all sway bars would be made from the highest quality spring steel and heat treated to restore the strength of the bar after bending. That is not the case. many companies cold form bars and do NOT heat treat them. Skipping this step greatly reduces the strength of a bar making market comparisons much more difficult for the consumer.

We like to rely on what we see on track in our testing. The setup in this car seems to work pretty well and it doesn't even have Pedders good bars on it. They were experimental and we considered them an EPIC FAIL. If a car is properly bushed, sprung and damped sway bars are the last tuning element required.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Pete is spot on!. We did a awesome V6 at Back Street in Medina, OH recently. I can tell you some of the roads there will kick your butt.

Here is our most recent V6 that we did that the customer, who named her Camaro Merlin, absolutely loves it

Merlin has been dropped, upgraded his subframe bushings, and front radius rod bushings:

Now this is why Merlin is loved so much. We call this our Pedderized smile, which was taken after her extended road test

So you should take a ride in a Pedderized Camaro and notice what a great ride it is. Also, looks awesome as well


thanks,
mike
dms

[JusticePete]

Merlin is a 6. I LOVE the way the 6 handles, especially Pedderised.

[Kwik]

How difficult is it to change out the sub-frame bushings? ABout how long? Thanks, Bob

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Kwik

How difficult is it to change out the sub-frame bushings? ABout how long? Thanks, Bob

Inserts on the drive way a couple of hours. Full bushes, depending on skill level and tools a full day would be worst case.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Originally Posted by Kwik

How difficult is it to change out the sub-frame bushings? ABout how long? Thanks, Bob

Hey Bob,

As Pete said, this is a very easy in the driveway install. I have made a DIY install manual on them but have not yet been posted. Can get it to you easily, however.

Do to them,
1. You put the back end on good jacks supporting the body and not the subframe.
2. With a floorjack, support the differential
3. Remove the 4 24mm bolts that attach the subframe to the body
4. Remove the 4 metal lower black mounting plates
5. Lower the assembly approximately 2-3 inches
6. Identify the 4 different bushings in the package. The install sheet included is very helpful on this
7. Install all 4 of the bushings
8. Raise the assembly back up,
9. Add the lower plates and bolts
10 Tighten the bolts and you are done

As Pete mentioned it is a great DIY install

Thanks
mike
dms

[gus@lsrperformance]

Besides swaybars you can also do rear trailing arms and toe links. We have got great feedback from customers who report that the trailing arms/toe links combination not only improved steering response but the straightline stability of the vehicle.

In other words the car no longer darts and wanders on the highway as much making it easier to drive straight plus rear end responds better to steering inputs. Hard steering inputs make the cars front and rear feel a little disconnected as the front begins to track quickly while the rear seems to lag a little bit before it reacts and tracks.

Our rear trailing arms and toe links will take are of that greatly improving steering feel and handling stability. We offer them in chrome moly alloy steel (2x stronger than mild steel and lighter) and full billet machined aluminum versions as well.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

The frirst thing when doing upgrades, you need to think about all the upgrades as a package. When you install a Maggie or Pro Charger, for example, leaving the stock suspension system in with the added 100hp or so to the ground, will increase the inefficiency of your hp to the ground. The OE suspension is seriously fine on Zeta 2, but can be enhanced significantly by tightening it up. Upgrading your bushings in the back to make your Camaro more to the ground efficient in torque and hp is in fact cheaper than increasing hp at the engine. So when doing engine upgrades, you should always include suspension upgrades to be able to maintain a very high efficiency in torque and hp to the wheels.

In general, there seems to be a better underestanding of hp increasing than suspension upgrading. So Pedders can easily assist you on this. Pete has made a rather definitive anaylsis of the Camaro suspension and is available to all. I strongly recommend you take a look at it when you are in your development stage,. Doing so you will probably be able to figure our your overall performance will probably be better adding 50 rear hp with suspension mods that 100rear hp and leaving the suspension stock.

Here is the link

UNDERSTANDING THE CAMARO SUSPENSION

Reading the above article on suspension, you will find out one of the valued enhancements that should be done on aggressively driven or high hp Camaros are the link bushings. They are a contributor to potential damaging wheel hop. Replacing them is seriously easy. After removing the arms, I use a universal balljoint press and can press all of them out within 5 minutes. Give yourself another 5 minutes for installing the Pedders EP7323 bushings. So for 10 minutes time, you can replace all of them very easily. Now if you do not have a universal balljoint press, they can be rented for about $10-15 a day and are very common.
Here is a picture of the bushings installed. Please note the extra lubricant on the face of the bushings. It is there for a reason. Before installing, we will coat the face of all these bushings

TRAILING ARM LINK AND TOE LINK PEDDERS BUSHINGS INSTALLED


TRAILING ARM PEDDERS BUSHING IN KNUCKLE ASSEMBLY

If you have any questions, just ask

thanks

mike
dms