What Is The Z/28 Missing?

[90503]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

The original "car" made the name Z/28. As a matter of fact it wasn't even a name at first just an order number. Therefore the name Z/28 fits "this" car perfectly.

If I remember correctly, the original '67 Z/28s weren't even "badged" as Z/28s...lol

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

There is a car behind every badge whether you like it or not. When I drove around in earlier years all I've seen were Iroc's and Z28's and it didn't take a genius to figure out that those must have been a top model of some sort. To me they looked cool but I just never pulled the trigger, I never really liked the body style of previous generations.

Now that brings us to present year. I never knew what a ZL1 was or the history behind it. The way GM marketed it and what it had to offer, I was like cool. And now I own one. I remember fbodfather saying a Z/28 wouldn't release so I said to myself the ZL1 I guess will be close enough. Now a Z/28 is upon us and then I find out the differences of a Z/28 and a Z28. I never knew the Z/28 became watered down "supposedly" which is how the Z28 was made minusing the "/". You want to say people are whinning and what not, your just repeating what 1 member said without having any sort of factual fact behind it. Some of us aren't 50 and grew up when all they know of is a Z28 and didn't know there was a difference in a "/" or not. GM confused the masses with the badge and now they are trying to fix it by going back to the original Z/28.

Fbodfather never said or implied a Z/28 would or would not be built. He kept repeating "we are never done".
Everyone knows that cars starting in the 70's and through the 90's were watered down. It's why the 60's and early 70's cars are so desirable. But now we've eclipsed those great and memorable cars. And yes GM did say they wanted to remedy the confusion of the name.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Fbodfather never said or implied a Z/28 would or would not be built. He kept repeating "we are never done".
Everyone knows that cars starting in the 70's and through the 90's were watered down. It's why the 60's and early 70's cars are so desirable. But now we've eclipsed those great and memorable cars. And yes GM did say they wanted to remedy the confusion of the name.

It took a while but I found his actual quote

Originally Posted by fbodfather
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Doc

Actually the 1LE is kinda the "Z28" as far as performance goes. The 1LE has a great suspension/chassis, great starting point for adding power, and I believe they're still under $40k. If you're looking for a car that's a solid corner carver, good on the street, good as a daily driver, it's hard to beat. For people who like to performance drive, it's a great car. It's not "ultimate" like the Z/28 is going to be but it's not "ultimate" cost either. And how many people who think they want a true Z/28 are "ultimate" drivers? Get the 1LE and spend a couple grand going to a racing driving school like Bondurant's or others around the country. You'll get much more value out of that than toodling around town in an ultimate expense Z/28 that you're nowhere near skilled enough to fully utilize.

It all depends on whether you're a true performance driver or a boulevard cruiser who just wants to be seen in a status symbol. GM is offering a full range of Camaros, from the entry-level 1LE V6 to the ultimate track car Z/28. There's a Camaro for everything from cruising around town, taking road trips, drag racing, autocross and road course. Complaining because they aren't making the EXACT car EXACTLY the way you want it is kind of silly; it's a muscle car... just buy the one that's the closest to what you want and mod it like everyone else does.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

It took a while but I found his actual quote

Thanks.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Fbodfather never said or implied a Z/28 would or would not be built. He kept repeating "we are never done".
Everyone knows that cars starting in the 70's and through the 90's were watered down. It's why the 60's and early 70's cars are so desirable. But now we've eclipsed those great and memorable cars. And yes GM did say they wanted to remedy the confusion of the name.

At C5F his exact words "we aren't building a Z/28". He got that question a dozen times. Maybe he just meant not right this second, and the focus was on the 1LE as they were there to display. I had even asked a gentleman that was with him about the ZL1 and he mentioned they would still be available for 2014 and 2015.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 90503

If I remember correctly, the original '67 Z/28s weren't even "badged" as Z/28s...lol

You are correct, I believe it only had a badge designating the engine size 302.

[orthojoe]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

There is a car behind every badge whether you like it or not. When I drove around in earlier years all I've seen were Iroc's and Z28's and it didn't take a genius to figure out that those must have been a top model of some sort. To me they looked cool but I just never pulled the trigger, I never really liked the body style of previous generations.

Now that brings us to present year. I never knew what a ZL1 was or the history behind it. The way GM marketed it and what it had to offer, I was like cool. And now I own one. I remember fbodfather saying a Z/28 wouldn't release so I said to myself the ZL1 I guess will be close enough. Now a Z/28 is upon us and then I find out the differences of a Z/28 and a Z28. I never knew the Z/28 became watered down "supposedly" which is how the Z28 was made minusing the "/". You want to say people are whinning and what not, your just repeating what 1 member said without having any sort of factual fact behind it. Some of us aren't 50 and grew up when all they know of is a Z28 and didn't know there was a difference in a "/" or not. GM confused the masses with the badge and now they are trying to fix it by going back to the original Z/28.

I don't think you quite understand what I was getting at. Take away all the badges and preconceived ideas of what a Z/28 should be. Then look at the current ZL1 just on paper with out the ZL1 name. Erase ZL1, put in Z/28 name, and 99% of the complainers will be happy.

I personally could care less if the new Z/28 lost the badge was named something totally different/stupid. I'm looking for what the car was built for. Label it whatever you want. I don't care.

This is just like the general public's perception of the 911 Turbo vs. 911 GT3. The masses think the 911 Turbo is the ultimate 911. It makes more horsepower and is loaded is technology and amenities, so therefore it must be the best one. For some people, yes, it is the best car for THEM. For the track enthusiast, the GT3 is the model to get. Some people think they want the GT3, then complain about how loud and hard to drive around the street it is, when the 911 Turbo is the model they really wanted.

Originally Posted by L99CAMA2011

You ever tried taking tight twisties against a Miata with suspension Mods and rims and tires, ZL-1 no way bro.

I have. Many times. A miata with only suspension mods and tires still won't hold up to a ZL-1 on a road course. I'm sure if you're dodging cones it's a different story.

Originally Posted by Doc

Actually the 1LE is kinda the "Z28" as far as performance goes. The 1LE has a great suspension/chassis, great starting point for adding power, and I believe they're still under $40k. If you're looking for a car that's a solid corner carver, good on the street, good as a daily driver, it's hard to beat. For people who like to performance drive, it's a great car. It's not "ultimate" like the Z/28 is going to be but it's not "ultimate" cost either. And how many people who think they want a true Z/28 are "ultimate" drivers? Get the 1LE and spend a couple grand going to a racing driving school like Bondurant's or others around the country. You'll get much more value out of that than toodling around town in an ultimate expense Z/28 that you're nowhere near skilled enough to fully utilize.

It all depends on whether you're a true performance driver or a boulevard cruiser who just wants to be seen in a status symbol. GM is offering a full range of Camaros, from the entry-level 1LE V6 to the ultimate track car Z/28. There's a Camaro for everything from cruising around town, taking road trips, drag racing, autocross and road course. Complaining because they aren't making the EXACT car EXACTLY the way you want it is kind of silly; it's a muscle car... just buy the one that's the closest to what you want and mod it like everyone else does.

+1000

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

The original "car" made the name Z/28. As a matter of fact it wasn't even a name at first just an order number. Therefore the name Z/28 fits "this" car perfectly.

Perhaps GM should do the same again. No name. Just an order number to appease all the people that want the badge.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

At C5F his exact words "we aren't building a Z/28". He got that question a dozen times. Maybe he just meant not right this second, and the focus was on the 1LE as they were there to display. I had even asked a gentleman that was with him about the ZL1 and he mentioned they would still be available for 2014 and 2015.

I wasn't there so I can only default to what he's added to these threads. When did he make this comment? I ask since the Z/28 has been in development for some time.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

I don't think you quite understand what I was getting at. Take away all the badges and preconceived ideas of what a Z/28 should be. Then look at the current ZL1 just on paper with out the ZL1 name. Erase ZL1, put in Z/28 name, and 99% of the complainers will be happy.

This is just like the general public's perception of the 911 Turbo vs. 911 GT3. The masses think the 911 Turbo is the ultimate 911. It makes more horsepower and is loaded is technology and amenities, so therefore it must be the best one. For some people, yes, it is the best car for THEM. For the track enthusiast, the GT3 is the model to get. Some people think they want the GT3, then complain about how loud and hard to drive around the street it is, when the 911 Turbo is the model they really wanted.







Perhaps GM should do the same again. No name. Just an order number to appease all the people that want the badge.

I agree. The "Z28" was not much of an impressive car till just before it was killed off, so I'm surprised at the love for the name. The original Z/28? Now that's quite a different story.





No this car fits the name.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I wasn't there so I can only default to what he's added to these threads. When did he make this comment? I ask since the Z/28 has been in development for some time.

From what I've heard, there was more security surounding the development of the Z/28, than the launch codes of the Strategic Air Command.

There is an insider over at CZ28.com with a similar user name. His remarks were basically if he had made any indication about the development of the 5th gen Z/28 he would have instantly lost his job.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Mister Will

From what I've heard, there was more security surounding the development of the Z/28, than the launch codes of the Strategic Air Command.

There is an insider over at CZ28.com with a similar user name. His remarks were basically if he had made any indication about the development of the 5th gen Z/28 he would have instantly lost his job.

That's understandable, however being evasive is what they are very good at. I've never heard any of them outright lie. My feeling is the comment was taken out of context or misunderstood somehow.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

I wasn't there so I can only default to what he's added to these threads. When did he make this comment? I ask since the Z/28 has been in development for some time.

At the C5F last year that I was at. Another member had asked and that was his reply. They kept it so secretive maybe he just wasn't able to say anything is my guess. So when he said that I was like well oh well. I guess they were going to hold it off until the 6th Gen.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

At the C5F last year that I was at. Another member had asked and that was his reply. They kept it so secretive maybe he just wasn't able to say anything is my guess. So when he said that I was like well oh well. I guess they were going to hold it off until the 6th Gen.

Ok this is a quote from a thread Fbodfather started about the Z/28. I hope this answers the controversy.

Originally Posted by fbodfather

The past week has certainly been eventful and it’s certainly caused a lot of conversation…..

But before I get to that – let me apologize. I hate lying to anyone. And I lied. I lied when I said to some “There isn’t a Z28” – which, now that I think about it, is a ‘half-lie’ if there is such a thing. You see, there ISN’T a “Z28” – rather, we unveiled a “Z/28” and there IS a difference – quite a big one….but more about that in a minute or two…… Anywhoo – I had to ‘lie’ about there being a Z/28 - -because to talk about it would have cost me my job. If I’d even put a ‘winkie’ after some of your posts, I would have been summarily fired.

We were so security conscious that we had an internal name for the new Z/28….

“Steve”

When we talked about “shooting steve” - -no one would have thought about us taking pictures of a Z/28, now would they?

(….although it may have made a few people in law enforcement sit up and take notice……)

One would think that working on the Camaro CORE team is nothing but nirvana.

To a point, it is – but let me assure you that there are many rough spots and there are long hours and missed family engagements, and weekends are usually non-existent. That goes with the territory. But as to the privilege of being “custodians of the brand”, it’s necessary that we give up a lot in order to ensure that the Camaro and all that surrounds the design, engineering and building of these legendary cars is as is it should be – and we must hit ‘all the targets’ deserved by such a hallowed brand.

Please note: NO ONE within ‘Team Camaro” takes their job or their responsibilities lightly.

Decisions are agonized over – because it’s THAT important to you as a valued Camaro Enthusiast. More importantly – and I think this is something overlooked by many of you: We are Camaro Enthusiasts, too. And we’ve been Camaro Enthusiasts for many, many years -- (in some cases long before many of you could even say ‘Camaro!’)

I use the word “agonized” because we know that no matter WHAT we do or choose, we will be wide open for someone to be critical. That’s just the nature of an automobile that creates such passion. That said, it’s sometimes very difficult to have horrible insults thrown at you – or worse, the insults directed at that “labor-of-love” you’ve worked so hard to make better.

Dateline: New York – Wednesday, March 27, 2014:

Approximately 50 Camaro Enthusiasts were invited to the unveil of the 2014 Camaro at the New York Autoshow. Frankly, there were hundreds more Camaro Enthusiasts there – because many members of the press and other people who work in and around autoshows happen to be Camaro enthusiasts in addition to their jobs.

I wish each of you could have felt the excitement as the SS/RS drove onto the stage – there were cheers and roars of approval and clapping.

I also caught some “looks of surprise” when the Red Rock Metallic SS/RS did not pull onto the turntable in the middle – but rather to the side……it was like “…….what????.......”

And then the excitement grew as the sound of an LS7 V-8 roared to life behind the stage – and then the LED screen exploded (figuratively – not literally) with the sights and sounds of Z/28s of the past – and then from behind the stage came the new 2014 Z/28 – to cries of joy.

I was so happy to be able to watch this thru other peoples’ eyes. That’s just the greatest feeling. I was delighted with the response to both Camaros………..

My Blackberry started to vibrate as dozens of emails landed – nearly all of them overwhelmingly positive. I suspect that was to be expected as a lot of the dyed in the wool enthusiasts happen to have my corporate email account.
(….that can be a double edged sword at times…..)

………..and then I went onto a couple of enthusiast sights that evening and was dismayed at some of the language being used by a few people – and even more upset to see some people bashing our engineers and designers - and even worse, the Disciples.

I continually remind myself that much of this behavior is driven by passion. I’m also not naive enough to believe that it’s all passion. It stuns me to see remarks turn into a ‘contest’ of sorts to see who can hurl the best ‘insult.’ I don’t know when this became proper behavior in our society – but in my book, it’s improper and some people should be ashamed. Frankly, I’m more inclined to take opinions from well thought out posts than one that utilizes bad language and insults.



Now – for my thoughts on the 2014 Camaro:

Everything we do on Camaro is to improve it – make it better – offer ‘more than expected’ and to keep it fresh. The Camaro was first offered to the public in early 2009 – just about 4 years ago this month. We know that styling is one of the top reasons for purchase in this segment. Thus, it’s crucial that we update the styling…if we don’t, the volume will simply deteriorate. Deteriorated Volume doesn’t bode well for any brand…it’s the way brands disappear into the history of the automobile industry…..

The bad news? No matter what you do in terms of styling or content, you’ll be criticized by some. That’s just the way it is.

Examples:

People complained about the tail-lamps in the Camaro Concept. Not everyone was a fan – but we made the commitment to ensure that the production car looked as close to the concept as possible. Nevertheless, I received some nasty-grams about them……

When it was discovered that the car would have a ‘B-Pillar’ – some questioned if we – the members of “Team Camaro” -- had all just escaped from an asylum.

When people saw the back-up light slits in the rear fascia, some questioned as to whether or not we could even spell the name “Camaro”…..

When they saw the original 2010 Camaro steering wheel, some were certain that we’d time-travelled back in time to cause the Lindberg Baby Kidnapping…….

The SS fascia versus the V-6 fascia? We evidently created the hurricanes that devastated various parts of the world…….

Color changes? Well – according to a few, we simply can’t walk and chew gum at the same time…….

……and yet the new Camaro became number one in the segment.

And people got used to seeing all the things that caused so much uproar. And we continued to ‘wow’ the enthusiast community at large………

….and THEN we changed the steering wheel.

Some claim this caused 50,000 people to become sterile for simply laying their eyes on such hideousness. (some of the very people who HATED the original steering wheel now claimed that it was the most magnificent steering wheel the world had ever known…and that in changing it, we should be hanged by sundown.....how they now forget or try to hide the past posts they made…..)

And then we changed the SS wheels for 2013….. There’s a vicious rumor that this caused peoples’ teeth to fall out…….

And then we discontinued Imperial Blue (….in order to offer Blue Ray Metallic….) Some claim this caused thousands of dear little kitties and puppies to suddenly throw themselves in front of cars, trucks, and high-speed trains………..

(…are you noticing a trend here?)

Fast forward to earlier this week.

The new SS/RS was shown to the public.

The SS hood has evidently caused millions of people to suddenly slap their Mamas……

The rear tail lamps? Spring Flowers will no longer bloom.

And yet I suspect that once 90 percent of the people see the new 2014 Camaro in person, they’ll realize that perhaps they overreacted.

And the sun WILL come up tomorrow……….

The Camaro MUST ALWAYS be recognizable as a Camaro.

It must have Camaro styling cues.

We refreshed the front fascia to make the car more intimidating. We made the car look wider. AND – we made the SS look different than the V6 model. (at your request, by the way….) Further, there’s more differentiation between an RS Camaro and a non-RS Camaro – both in the front AND rear. (again, by your request…)

The tail-lamps are a tribute to the 1969 Camaro. (go study the 1969 Camaro tail-lamps -- both RS and Non-RS and you’ll start to appreciate why we did what we did.)

Remember those ‘poor unfortunates’ who hated the slits in the rear fascia for the back-up lights? Well – we listened to you. Shame on us.

The back-up lights have been moved into the tail-lamp assemblies. For those of you who felt the rear was “too busy” or “too tall” – well – we fixed that…..

For those of you who told us we should have put LED tail-lamps in the car? Well – we did on the RS models….

Some hated the ‘mail-slot’ front fascia on the SS. (some even went so far as to fill the slots on their Camaros in with various types of filler……) Well – we listened to you as well. (off with our heads…) The air extractor on the SS? It’s functional. (you asked for it….) It also just happens to be the same width as the reverse Mohawk in the roof.

And for the record – the V6 does not have the extractor in the hood – once again differentiating the SS from the non-SS.

Somehow, I suspect that Spring Flowers WILL bloom – and that most people in the coming months will say either:
“I LOVE it”

Or---

“Well ….that wasn’t so bad after all…”

A few others will still hate something about the front or the back -- Just as there are still Camaro Enthusiasts – however few – that still don’t like the 5th gen, period – luckily they are far and few between as sales figures prove……

So – for those who were disappointed in the changes – I sincerely hope you’ll be able to see the new 2014 Camaro in person real soon – and that you’ll find that the changes are in keeping with what makes a Camaro a Camaro…………