My LLT engine is blown on my 2LT, any recommendations?

[diamondmike]

i am doing a v8 swap my car has 5000 miles i will sell motor 5k.

[DarkneSS]

Originally Posted by diamondmike

i am doing a v8 swap my car has 5000 miles i will sell motor 5k.

V8 swap? That HAS to cost you more than just getting an SS. But no thanks I didn't pay $28,700 to have to buy a new motor, thats what the warranty will handle.

[CaliMattRS]

Bump - Status update?

[Camarodriver]

Well it's about time that I finish up this thread and it is indeed finishing on a POSITIVE note!

In a nutshell, GM and I worked things out to get me out of my 2010 2LT and get me into a 2011 2SS! GM did, finally, do what was right and arranged a proper trade in of my car with a reasonable loss on my part for the depreciation of 9 months of driving my 2010.

Originally when my LLT V6 went in for service and the bearing had been identified as defective, causing the need to rebuild or replace the engine, I was ready to accept a new engine. If GM had opted for this back in August, I would still be driving my 2LT today happily. For many reasons out of my control, several decisions were made by others to simply opt for the repair instead of engine replacement. I believe that this policy should be changed, certainly, as I think that this would have been the easiest way to avoid long term complications for both customer and GM. I am not sure who would accept a fully torn down engine being rebuilt at such low mileage, I certainly was not prepared to accept this "final" decision from the dealership or first level GM customer support.

I did work with the dealer and GM throughout the process to allow them to exhaust their options, trying to fix things but it really did seem like it was taking too much time and money out of everyone and it seemed to me that a new engine would have saved so much time right from the first failure. I guess what I am trying to say is that if this happens to you, you gotta stick with it, be courteous, professional and cooperative during the process to demonstrate that you are willing to do whatever it takes to make things right. In my case, I believe, it's what made the difference between a yes or no answer to what I wanted... to go back in time and order a V8 equipped Camaro.

At first, GM was basically turning me right down. GM Canada customer service just referred to the textbook answers that they were "respecting their warranty obligations" and that I should be OK with the rebuilt engine. I had sold my second gen Camaro to put a deposit down on this one and I was planning on keeping this car for the long haul. I was not happy at the prospect of possible issues down the road so keeping the rebuilt engine was simply not an option! I could just tell that this customer service rep didn't drive a Camaro so I was getting nowhere with her!

Out of desperation, I sent Scott Settlemire a PM cause I know HE drives a Camaro and HE understands how we all feel about our cars! Scott was not happy to hear that any Camaro was having trouble and he offered some helpful advice on what steps I could then take. Scott was such a gentlemen, so sincere and so totally F-Body cool and he really did understand how I felt. This motivated him to do whatever he could, even with the US/Canada border in the way. He told me that GM USA is a different company from GM Canada but he would see what he could do for me if anything at all. He was able to get someone at GM Canada to get in touch with me about this problem and we started to work on a fair solution.

The person that I spoke to at GM Canada was really amazing! She really seemed to understand where I was coming from and she really wanted to make things right. We needed to go through several steps to review the chronology of events together, covering all details up to that point. This was KEY in the process, so I would advise anyone that has to go through any similar event to be prepared. Keep detailed notes on what happened and when so that if things get hairy and you need to go to arbitration, you have your ducks lined up!

My goal was to appeal to GM Canada directly for a fair trade in without having to go through a third party at arbitration. My new contact at GM did everything she could at the beginning to appeal to the powers that be to settle this before it did go to that level, but for awhile there she seemed to have her hands truly tied with red tape. The turning point seemed to be when I appealed to the Camaro5 forums for help, any help, that I asked for in my long post in this very thread. I think GM woke up to the reality of the power of our Camaro5.com community. I would like to believe that they really felt the "camaraderie", the sense of community and the power of our collective opinions. It would now seem that the days of a single consumers' voice are long gone and the power of the collective community is now being respected.

I have to thank all the members here for your support, comments and PM's that did indeed inspire me and help me out in a very real way. Without this forum, I do not think I would have had the very fair offer I finally received from GM. I do not want to seem unappreciative to GM for doing the right thing in the end, but I do want to recognize that it was most certainly because of members like you, reading this thread, caring enough for others going through rough situations and offering help. I am very happy that GM did the right thing, but I am much more indebted to each of you, especially the Fbodfather, who stepped up to the plate to help out a fellow F-Body brother! One day, you CAN come asking ME for a favor, Mr. Settlemire, I hope I will be able to reciprocate! It may have been easy enough for you to do, but you said it best in a PM you sent me:

"it may seem trite to some, but we really DO aim to keep our customers happy" (Fbodfather, Sept 2010)

Well, I am VERY happy now as I have a Summit White 2011 2SS/RS with M6 Hurst shifter on order! This is truly a happy ending at the end of this long, frustrating story. I will certainly post pictures and news as soon as I have this fine automobile in my driveway.

Thanks again to everyone and a special thanks to the moderators of Camaro5.com. I will most definitely be clicking away on your ads and shopping at your sponsors sites! I will go out of my way to ensure that whatever I buy for my Camaro come via these vendors as much as possible! Thanks again to everyone, sorry for the rambling style of this post, I just blurted it all out in one sitting.

Warm regards to you all!

eB

[camarorick]

Excellent

Can't wait to see it

[mfr1950]

If I had to go what you went thru,I would have hit the bottle a long time ago!!!!!
Happy to see that it at last worked out for you and hopefully your new Camaro will be trouble free!!

[LS 1st gen]

YES!

You are absolutely correct in your assertion that the days of the lone voice of the consumer have come to an end.

The Camaro community, and indeed, auto enthusiasts as a whole are a very passionate group. GM MUST come to understand that our voices willl be heard no matter what.

Eventually the group of MBA's and bean counters who do cost benefit studies on this sort of thing will come to understand that they aren't merely selling widgets and doodads on a spreadsheet to a faceless consumer, but in fact selling a dream to a very loyal, very valuable customer base....

Threads like this one, not to mention countless blog posts and email chains send a very clear message.

EDIT:

By the way - A huge, HUGE thank you to Scott should be emphasized on this one. I know he wishes he could take care of each and every one of us in this manner....


Scott- Wherever you end up, I sure hope you can still muster up the Black Suburbans when necessary!

[Camarodriver]

I just received order confirmation that my status is in the 3000's and yesterday tye production date was November 29th! That means I should have it for the first week of December! Pictures soon to follow...
eB

[cmore]

Congratulations on getting it resolved, finally.

[caverman]

Dude....Congrats on the new Camaro! You are going to be extemely happy with the SS. Start saving now for mods.

Remember....everything happens for a reason and it usually all works out in the end.

[Caspers2SSRS]

Thanks for sharing the experience and I'm glad the issue is finally being resolved. Nice color selection on the new SS too..........

[abaucom21]

Only started reading this thread today, and it was a real page-turner!
Camarodriver, you have shown by example how to document problems anyone has with a new car, Camaro or not.
"I did work with the dealer and GM throughout the process to allow them to exhaust their options, trying to fix things but it really did seem like it was taking too much time and money out of everyone and it seemed to me that a new engine would have saved so much time right from the first failure. I guess what I am trying to say is that if this happens to you, you gotta stick with it, be courteous, professional and cooperative during the process to demonstrate that you are willing to do whatever it takes to make things right. In my case, I believe, it's what made the difference between a yes or no...."
After reading this entire thread today I wanted to add my 2-cents. My past 40 years experience buying new autos is you need to keep complete records and written documentation on every verbal or written communication regarding an issue you have with your car.
I am a US citizen but have Canadian permenant residence in Canada. Camarodriver did mention prices and taxes for a Camaro are higher here in Canada. GM Canada does add a great deal of money to cars sold in Canada. With all things equal (US dollar & Canada dollar) it costs us here in Canada about $4000 (USD) more per model to buy in Canada vs the US. Problem is GM Canada does not offer a cross border warrenty for the first 6-months AND about 15,000 KM. As little as I drive my 2011 2LT that would mean I would not qualify for my GM warrenty for the first of two years I owned my Camaro if I bought in US and imported to Canada. Note: Ford does respect cross border warrenty with no restrictions. Also sales tax is sometimes more than double what some pay in the states. Camarodriver lives in Quebec with some of the highest taxes in Canada. Camarodriver had a concern as in Quebec, winter tires are the law, not required in Ontario. When I preordered my 2011 2LT I did not order the RS package because the RS package only came with summer tires, not all season tires.
GM Canada (and his dealership) seriously jerked Camarodriver around. He did exactly what he should have done and went public. Never ranted, or flamed. He just keep us informed and he "documented".
GM Canada should have replaced the engine a long time ago after the engine was rebuilt and problems continued. In 1976 I bought a new 1976 Eldorado convertible. After about 3,000 miles engine developed a "ticking" noise. Third trip back to the dealership it was determined a bad bearing. Cadillac said could not happen except in 1 of 100,000 engines. No issue, at under 4,000 miles Cadillac replaced the engine. Move foreward, I had a new 1996 Chrysler Sebring LXI. From 1st month to after warrenty expired I repeated complaining about a "clunk" sound from the front end when I was driving at low spead turning into my home garage. Warrenty expired, I contacted Chrysler regional as well as the Texas State Attorney office. Result was for 2-1/2 weeks my dealer replaced one part after another until problem solved. Dealer gave me a loan car. Result was, with my complete documentation, Chrysler issued one 'technical bulletin", plus a recall notice. My cousin is experiencing some of these frustrations now. She has a top of the line 2009 Ford SUV with 22,000 miles. The SUV has had many computer issues, to the point it will not start. It has been at the dealership for close to 1-1/2 months, they have not offered a loaner. The dealer has changed many computer parts. Dealer can not get the SUV to start. Dealer told her they don't know the problem, does she want to trade? I told her Friday contact the dealer, give her an equal loaner, and she was going to contact the regional rep. by this Wed. If she did not have a resolution by this coming Wed., go to the State Attorney General's office. Last story. 1998 my elderly aunt bought her 4th white Riviera over a period of 30 years. From day one she said the engine made a ticking noise. After 3 visits to the dealer, and only 6 months of ownership she contacted me. I called GM regional and more or less informed them either replace the Riviera or fix the issue. Bottom line is within one month GM replaced the Riviera with a new car and it did not cost my aunt 1-cent in taxes etc. My aunt died a number of years ago and left me her 1998 pearl white Riviera. Today the 12 year old Riviera has only 67,000 miles, never been driven in snow, and 'no engine ticking noise'.
If anyone has an issue with a new car, follow how Camarodriver resolved his problems. I have done the same with positive results over the years.

[Camarodriver]

Well, abaucom21, those were fine stories! Thanks for sharing them, it made me feel a kind of kinship, with you, you aunt and frankly, all car drivers out there that have ever had a similar situation as I have been through.

I guess this happens and happens alot and to many people. It comes down to how the scenario plays out in each case, with the involved parties and the manufacturers themselves. I really think that the manufacturers take a chance on the cheaper solution most of the time, hoping that an individual will fold and sit down easily. They bank on people not being prepared, not having records together and not building what could be a solid case for themselves. Most people end up at the end of such processes with no choice but to take whatever is offered, even though it would be unfair to them in the end.

This is unfortunate, but as they say: if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. I am an entrepreneur and have my own business now for over 12 years and have sought legal advice on several occasions and my good friend and lawyer once told me something very wise: conduct yourself in business as if you were standing in front of a judge. This is advice that has always come in very handy!

I hope this thread has helped out many out there, as it certainly has helped me!

(typed out in one sitting on my ipad without spell check, so be warned its padspeak)

T-minus 21 days and counting!
eB

[Camarodriver]

MY CAR HAS ARRIVED! It's at the dealer and I pick it up next week, probably tuesday. I took some pictures and video of the first startup. Check it OUT! More soon!

eB