2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[VADER SS L99]

Some of my fellow Camaro brothers need to take a breath and come back to reality. Some of you guys sound like the Mustang fanboys back in 09 when the SS was about to be released. Throwing quotes out there like "drivers race" and most SS drivers won't be able to drive their car and the GT will still be able to beat it on the same track. Come on guys, the difference in performance between the 2012 ZL1 and 2013 GT500 is as big a difference as the 2010 SS and GT. GM droped the ball on this one. Ford won this battle clearly. Everyone needs to accept it and move on. Hope for a better showing next round. I think most GM faithfull are just disappointed like I am because GM clearly made this car to beat the GT500 in all aspects of performance.

On another note everyone needs to stop pulling the road course card. Even if the ZL1 is a better road course car who cares, I know I don't. These are pony/muscle cars people. You want a good road course car look into a light, nimble, true sports car like the Vette. Not a heavy brute force muscle car like a Camaro or Mustang. Muscle cars should be very good at one thing, straight line performance. Everything else comes second. Ford clearly understands this and I tip my hat to them. They came to win and were not kidding around. GM should of had the same concept before stepping in to play this game. They just built a factory production muscle car that is capable of 10's. I think we need to show credit where credit is due and stop making biased childish excuses. Like I said some of you sound like they did back in 09.

[08GT500]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

WOW!

Side-by-side, same-day, same road course will be very interesting. Ford is surely nervous. Remember, although there was LOTS of hoopla at Atlanta, no 'Ring times were released after they spent a considerable amount of time over there.

Sounds like the '13 GT500 will NOT match an '11 in autoX, contrary to one of the focal points in Ford's press release earlier last week. And blaming that result on the Torsen? Without it (for those who understand its technology), something as powerful but incorrectly weighted as the GT500 wouldn't stand a chance of putting all that torque to the ground. And with a Torsen, that 9% power loss on the dyno frankly lacks credibility (unless a tune was administered?). GM/SLP used the Torsen in their Firehawk, to great effect.

BTW, best totally STOCK runs for Vettes, as per Corvette Forum:

Z06 = 10.981 @ 128.90
ZR1 = 10.664 @ 132.92

Good luck with those numbers.

It should be noted that since 06 there has been only one bone stock car (at least on the corvette forum site) to actually run a very high 10. Not that it is not an incredible feat, just bears noting that it has not been duplicated despite the no doubt hundreds if not thousands of attempts over the years. Ranger is considered an incredible driver and is very close but not cracked the 10's yet. So needless to say, certainly not the norm or even common for that matter.

[9c1ny]

Originally Posted by 08GT500

It should be noted that since 06 there has been only one bone stock car (at least on the corvette forum site) to actually run a very high 10. Not that it is not an incredible feat, just bears noting that it has not been duplicated despite the no doubt hundreds if not thousands of attempts over the years. Ranger is considered an incredible driver and is very close but not cracked the 10's yet. So needless to say, certainly not the norm or even common for that matter.

the difference is that the Corvette is a track car and a very small percentage of owners hit the quarter mile with them, along with low production numbers compared to GT500s

I am guessing there will be 20 Gt500s at the strip for every 1 ZR1 or Z06..................

BTW there has been 7 official 10 second passes with DRs only, the best being 10.7 @ 130mph

[08GT500]

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that you will see 10 second passes done by GT500's with Drag Radials. Maybe more than 7 as well.

[gbosh]

Ford Mustang 203,no automatic transmission! Heel toe shifting and no slow down from a ONSTAR system or locating a stolen car,fail! Same goes to the 5oo! Fail! Now lets talk racing! Who ever came up with the opinion that the car is going to win races? One factor not in the equation is the driver,thats right! More races are won by the driver than any factor that tilts the race to the best car. Watch drag racing on TV and it is not the horsepower that wins but reaction time and driver skill.

[UBERJIM]

Originally Posted by Deki

The Lamborghini was ran with other cars present on the track. My point is, it's a 13 mile long, 150+ turn track. The cars were driven on different days. All the cars were tested by different drivers. ZL1 and GT500s run there also run full cages, which adds a lot to the rigidity of the chassis. You absolutely can not compare lap times of cars that are within 3 seconds of each other on a track that long with those variables. The GT500 unofficially ran a 7:35 on that track as times by someone who recorded the car from one point on the track and timed it on video. If it in fact did that time officially, that would mean there is less than a 1.3% difference in the time between the GT500 and the ZL1. Do you think that is sufficient evidence that the GT500 would be faster than a ZL1 on most tracks, or do you think that the weather, driver, or other traffic conditions could more than affect the time more than 1.3%? Like I said, marketing tool. They can use that track to develop the suspension and chassis all they want, but anyone who cares about over all performance of a car will know that the 'Ring time means nothing.

So no 2 times on any given track are comparable (drag or autocross). Because unless they are the EXACT same conditions you can't compare them. Crap, that means that two guys lining up at a quarter mile track can't compare times since the lanes are different in conditioning. We need to call the NHRA and let them know this. BS. I agree with you that there is little difference in the times of the cars I used for examples. The point I was trying to make was that the technology in the ZL1 suspension makes it a contender against cars that, on paper, look to be superior.

The 'ring times mean nothing? What times matter then? I denounce quarter mile times. They don't matter because "anyone who cares about overall performance of a car knows" they mean nothing. Heck I denounce all track times!! Now we just have bench racing left. And we have come full circle back to this thread.

[Performance Enthusiast]

No matter how you look at it, GM was caught with their pants down with respect to the straight line performance of the 2013 Shelby GT500. GM benchmarked the Shelby GT500 ('12) when they developed the ZL1. Typically, when a company targets and benchmarks a competitors product, the goal is not to compete in a couple segments or to dominant in one particular segment, it is to win in all major segments. It is true that these two cars have not run head-to-head yet, but it willl be very difficult for a all-stock ZL1 to win against a all-stock 2013 GT500 in acceleration tests and 1/4 mile performance and this is a key metric for this type of performance car.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by gbosh

Ford Mustang 203,no automatic transmission! Heel toe shifting and no slow down from a ONSTAR system or locating a stolen car,fail! Same goes to the 5oo! Fail! Now lets talk racing! Who ever came up with the opinion that the car is going to win races? One factor not in the equation is the driver,thats right! More races are won by the driver than any factor that tilts the race to the best car. Watch drag racing on TV and it is not the horsepower that wins but reaction time and driver skill.

Yes, the Camaro is better because Ford doesn't have OnStar just in case your car gets stolen, and because they don't offer an automatic on cars they market as "track cars". lol come on...that's almost as bad as "the Camaro looks better" card.

[9c1ny]

Originally Posted by 08GT500

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that you will see 10 second passes done by GT500's with Drag Radials. Maybe more than 7 as well.

you very well might be right, it is possible that the test cars could be "ringers" it has happened in the muscle car wars of the past, I'll reserve judgement until actual civilian data is in, it stomps the ZL1, I will admit that now but anything above and beyond is yet to be seen

[Edwin320]

I think the "Camaro looks better" card is pretty darned valid. No question, the GT500 is a faster, more powerful car than the ZL1, and I wouldn't be surprised if its also competitive on a road course, but the ZL1 looks better IMO. :-)

[93TealCobra]

Guys now we're comparing Lamborghini to Porsche?

Why are you dancing around the question at hand. Most of you have been honestly level headed. These are both fast cars, and both owners win.

However, those who are too prideful to admit defeat, you're making yourself look foolish. Give up the damn ghost, its over.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by Performance Enthusiast

No matter how you look at it, GM was caught with their pants down with respect to the straight line performance of the 2013 Shelby GT500. GM benchmarked the Shelby GT500 ('12) when they developed the ZL1. Typically, when a company targets and benchmarks a competitors product, the goal is not to compete in a couple segments or to dominant in one particular segment, it is to win in all major segments. It is true that these two cars have not run head-to-head yet, but it willl be very difficult for a all-stock ZL1 to win against a all-stock 2013 GT500 in acceleration tests and 1/4 mile performance and this is a key metric for this type of performance car.

How can GM or any other company for that matter know what or how their competition is going to react. I think you have missed the whole point of what Chevy is doing and they did not "get caught with their pants down". I don't need to reiterate the reasons why. Just go and do your own research. Your comments are inflammatory in nature and thus all your doing is considered trolling.

[TheReaper]

Why do some of you guys think all 2013 GT500's cost $64,000 ? You can get a base for 54,200 that will beat just about anything on the street.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by Edwin320

I think the "Camaro looks better" card is pretty darned valid. No question, the GT500 is a faster, more powerful car than the ZL1, and I wouldn't be surprised if its also competitive on a road course, but the ZL1 looks better IMO. :-)

But it's not valid. It's an opinion. It's very subjective. For example, I think the Camaro looks great, I just think the Mustang looks better lol