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Old 05-19-2013, 12:43 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro View Post
Stock for stock(except for tires, both wearing the same) the Z/28 would win. Even on 1 lap course, tires would not make up 3 seconds.
Happy to see this post, you see the argument being made and have answered it with your opinion. Thank you. I would like to see this exact head to head. I actually feel the z28 could do it, just feel the zl1 deserved a fair shot in this comparo and the 3 second wallop would be narrowed by the same shoes.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:44 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Hah. Still Same car. Broaden your horizon past your Chevy and your keyboard. M3, Z06, aventador, Italia, 911 turbo, and viper are different cars, modded Camaro gen 5's are modded camaros, whether modded by gm or by john q public. Same cars, one got race slick compound and one did not. That is fine. Not saying zl1 is better, never said that. Only said that if you want to compare lap times, give them both race compound or street tires. Pretty simple to comprehend, or so I thought. I see that some here see the logic and truth in that , some others cannot. I bet the "some others" just buy the cheapest tire available when you need replacements or you choose what tread pattern looks cool. Tires are just for driving to work on, right?
Are you really that dense or just trolling?

The ZL1 is a benchmark, something to compare the Z/28 to. Changing the tires on the ZL1 defeats the purpose.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:50 AM   #171
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Okay we'll that's an interesting answer, but its an answer I guess mag ride will overcome 300 lbs, higher COG, 200 (apparently) track tunings, spool valve dampers and GM engineers admission that the z28 is the superior track car. Okay man, I'll respectfully disagree and we'll see!
Not an admission, a proposal, to aid sales for a car that although a spectacular engineering feat, might not sell well. They need the z28 to sell like past z28's. Not like special one off cars. They need numbers that excite the masses,like 3 seconds over a mighty ZL1.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:54 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Happy to see this post, you see the argument being made and have answered it with your opinion. Thank you. I would like to see this exact head to head. I actually feel the z28 could do it, just feel the zl1 deserved a fair shot in this comparo and the 3 second wallop would be narrowed by the same shoes.
Ah, looks like grasshopper(myself) is learning well.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:57 AM   #173
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Are you really that dense or just trolling?

The ZL1 is a benchmark, something to compare the Z/28 to. Changing the tires on the ZL1 defeats the purpose.
Trolling? K. Weird. Zl1 is the car, not the tires. Z28 is a.car that needed sticky tires to perform as designed. The zl1 needs these as well but they gave it a tire that was a compromise between race and longevity. Both cars will be rubber scrubbing monsters. Both cars will always need sticky tires to show the CAR'S max potential. I only pointed out that two car that obviously need traction were compared, only one received more sticky stuff where it was needed. So, gm, trofeo up the zl1, let's see an official.time. anyone can put these tires on and race it, only GM's time is valid for evaluation.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:59 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
Not an admission, a proposal, to aid sales for a car that although a spectacular engineering feat, might not sell well. They need the z28 to sell like past z28's. Not like special one off cars. They need numbers that excite the masses,like 3 seconds over a mighty ZL1.
No sir, in fact We all heard the GM exec say its not for everyone and we both know that sales aren't going to be like past z28's. the enthusiasts at GM put some great work into this car to build a great track car true to its heritage and the results are speaking for themselves. You believe this camaro team is somehow trying to cover for some failure, or trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. That's kind of sad actually, but maybe that's just the type of person you are. I have friends that think everything is a conspiracy. In the end I can't help but believe it stems from a bit of envy over the hype and excitement for this car, seeing how you just bought a zl1, but I could be totally wrong on that one I don't know you that we'll. it's just that is EXACTLY what is coming across on your posts.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:03 AM   #175
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I will admit that was a mistake on my part. I read "just tires" and quit reading.... All of your post's go the same direction so I just assumed. My bad.

I clearly think you are underestimating this car and all that has went into it. ITS NOT JUST TIRES. I could be wrong and you could be right. Time will tell....
Oh no, you are right, very right. You could put Trofeos on the ZL1 and it's not going to compete with the Z/28. If anybody thinks GM is "pulling a fast one" (no pun intended hehe) here with marketing gimmicks, they just have to read up on Mark Stielow and what kinds of projects he does and the results he gets.

There's a LOT more going on than just tires. They're creating a sophisticated chassis/suspension setup that Stielow is personally tweaking which means MANY things, not just slapping sticky tires on an otherwise stock chassis/suspension. The fact that GM allowed him to create custom 4-way adjustable dampers just for this car; create custom rear glass, custom rear seat, custom wiring harness, etc. is a huge indicator of how much confidence they have in him (fully justified too) and what their goals are here. This car isn't just a standard SS with a track pack; it's a new car, period.

Stielow has the freedom and approval to create custom pieces as he deems necessary; that's an incredible move by GM. They haven't released Ring numbers yet because Stielow isn't done, not because they're "afraid" to. The word "afraid" isn't in Stielow's vocabulary.

On the street the ZL1 is going to be the better car; smoother ride, more comfortable, quieter, better for cruising around town or taking trips. On the track (road course) the Z/28 is going to rule and if that bothers ZL1 owner's... oh well. They're two entirely different cars designed for two entirely different purposes. Tires is actually the least of it; of course they're putting track tires on a track car. Putting Trofeos on a ZL1 would just chew them up in short order while they tried to deal with the extra 300 lbs of weight going around corners. Sure they'd hold better than the Goodyears but at a price; the ZL1's chassis/suspension isn't set up for road course. It can run there and do pretty well, but it's not going to be a Z/28.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:17 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by GRAHL View Post
No sir, in fact We all heard the GM exec say its not for everyone and we both know that sales aren't going to be like past z28's. the enthusiasts at GM put some great work into this car to build a great track car true to its heritage and the results are speaking for themselves. You believe this camaro team is somehow trying to cover for some failure, or trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. That's kind of sad actually, but maybe that's just the type of person you are. I have friends that think everything is a conspiracy. In the end I can't help but believe it stems from a bit of envy over the hype and excitement for this car, seeing how you just bought a zl1, but I could be totally wrong on that one I don't know you that we'll. it's just that is EXACTLY what is coming across on your posts.
I can see why some feel.my post come off that way. I understand why. I just choose to stick to my guns on the 3 second issue and the tires. While we don't have to agree, I am entitled to speculate as well as anyone. I don't and haven't said the z28 won't be a superb track car, I only asked that we see both cars with race tires on the same track. Small request cheap tire change, 1 day of driving. No biggie. We can all see it one way or another, but we cannot expect that either side will just change its opinion. And I don't expect you guys too, I am just hearing opi ions and giving mine. On the the topic. Off topic comments, no thanks peeps
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:34 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
I can see why some feel.my post come off that way. I understand why. I just choose to stick to my guns on the 3 second issue and the tires. While we don't have to agree, I am entitled to speculate as well as anyone. I don't and haven't said the z28 won't be a superb track car, I only asked that we see both cars with race tires on the same track. Small request cheap tire change, 1 day of driving. No biggie. We can all see it one way or another, but we cannot expect that either side will just change its opinion. And I don't expect you guys too, I am just hearing opi ions and giving mine. On the the topic. Off topic comments, no thanks peeps
Here is the flaw with the notion of just changing the tires on the cars....

Cars are tuned with the tires that they are intended to use (factory stock tires). The ZL1 Camaro suspension is tuned for the tires that it comes with, so just putting on it the Z/28 tires will not allow it to maximize the performance advantage. Same thing applies to the Z/28 Camaro, if you put lesser tires on it then you seriously risk throwing off the balance of the car.

So while yes having the Z/28 tires is going to give someone an advantage, however I think we all can look at both vehicles and understand that not all of the advantages come from the tires. The ZL1 Camaro is 4,100 pounds while the Z/28 is going to be around 3,780 pounds (my guess based on GMs press release). Certainly having a 320 pound weight advantage is going to be good for some performance, also according to GMs press release the Z/28 does have a better power to weight ratio then the ZL1 Camaro (at 3,780 pounds that means 540+BHP). Also the aerodynamic edge and the carbon ceramic disc brakes will be another area where the Z/28 has an advantage over the ZL1 Camaro.

So to just assume that if you swapped tires that the ZL1 will be even or faster would require one to ignore everything else about the two cars.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:38 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
I can see why some feel.my post come off that way. I understand why. I just choose to stick to my guns on the 3 second issue and the tires. While we don't have to agree, I am entitled to speculate as well as anyone. I don't and haven't said the z28 won't be a superb track car, I only asked that we see both cars with race tires on the same track. Small request cheap tire change, 1 day of driving. No biggie. We can all see it one way or another, but we cannot expect that either side will just change its opinion. And I don't expect you guys too, I am just hearing opi ions and giving mine. On the the topic. Off topic comments, no thanks peeps
Both cars with the same tires on the same track...the Z/28 is going to be faster for many reasons. 1. it has 11" wide tires all the way around; more rubber on the road. 2. it's 300 lbs lighter (maybe more, we don't know yet). 3. it's weight balance will be more favorable allowing it greater speeds into, through and out of corners. 4. the power difference will be negligible; the LS7 engine has a much better torque range giving it the advantage on a road course. 5. brakes; the Z/28's brakes will enable it to survive serious braking lap after lap while the ZL1 will have heat issues. 6. aerodynamically the Z/28 is being optimized in many ways specifically for road course performance. Those are just a few we know of; when Stielow says they've made over 200 changes, there's some serious tweaking going on that goes way beyond sticky tires. It says something that the car is capable of handling 11" wide sticky tires like that without fuel starvation, oil starvation or suspension component failures...that's a LOT of side-force grip.

The ZL1 is a great street car that can be driven on the track and do well; there's nothing wrong with that or the fact that it will be beaten ON THE TRACK by a designed-for-the-track car.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:41 PM   #179
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Both cars with the same tires on the same track...the Z/28 is going to be faster for many reasons. 1. it has 11" wide tires all the way around; more rubber on the road. 2. it's 300 lbs lighter (maybe more, we don't know yet). 3. it's weight balance will be more favorable allowing it greater speeds into, through and out of corners. 4. the power difference will be negligible; the LS7 engine has a much better torque range giving it the advantage on a road course. 5. brakes; the Z/28's brakes will enable it to survive serious braking lap after lap while the ZL1 will have heat issues. 6. aerodynamically the Z/28 is being optimized in many ways specifically for road course performance. Those are just a few we know of; when Stielow says they've made over 200 changes, there's some serious tweaking going on that goes way beyond sticky tires. It says something that the car is capable of handling 11" wide sticky tires like that without fuel starvation, oil starvation or suspension component failures...that's a LOT of side-force grip.

The ZL1 is a great street car that can be driven on the track and do well; there's nothing wrong with that or the fact that it will be beaten ON THE TRACK by a designed-for-the-track car.
And don't forget a lower COG and less unsprung weight.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:59 PM   #180
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I think that the Z28 will be faster than any stock Corvette, except of the ZR1 or Z06 (Carbon edition)
Might be able to run with Z06. Think its a drivers race at that point.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:04 PM   #181
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Trolling? K. Weird. Zl1 is the car, not the tires. Z28 is a.car that needed sticky tires to perform as designed. The zl1 needs these as well but they gave it a tire that was a compromise between race and longevity. Both cars will be rubber scrubbing monsters. Both cars will always need sticky tires to show the CAR'S max potential. I only pointed out that two car that obviously need traction were compared, only one received more sticky stuff where it was needed. So, gm, trofeo up the zl1, let's see an official.time. anyone can put these tires on and race it, only GM's time is valid for evaluation.
You're still missing the point but its ok.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:15 PM   #182
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Tuned for GY F2 tires? Really? Maybe they should have used the record setting Michelin's from the ZR1 runs at the NUrburgring.


Corvette credits much of the car’s added performance to its new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure tires, which provided an 8 percent gain in lateral acceleration, as well as improved braking. The new tires are available on the flagship 638-hp ZR1 as well as on the 505-hp Z06.
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