STAGE 2 ZL1 [POLL]

[PNYSLAR]

Originally Posted by rpepka

665 HP please! I just want to kick some mustang ASS

[brucedd]

I think almost 100% would do the factory upgrade with warranty, not sure why only a 10% number is estimated?

Great car no doubt. Still better with a factory upgrade.

Like to see GM do something for pride not just bottom line anyway. Say what you will, the 13 Shelby was sand kicked in the face with no reply so far. Rationalize however makes you feel better.

I want a factory warranteed upgrade.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by RoketRdr

Like I said...Ford took the GT500 out of the "pony" car class. That was their choice and GM isn't obligated to create a whole new car to chase a whole new class since they already have the Z06 and ZR1 handling that level of duty. GM is not going to let the Camaro perform on the Corvette level for less money. Ford did this as a last hurrah to the American "Muscle" car as its on its way out the door starting in 2015. The purpose of the ZL1 was to bring back the old moniker and that's what GM did. Had they known Ford was going to choose to make such a radical jump and completely reclass the GT500 then of course GM would've followed suit with the ZL1. But most ZL1 owners will never use the 580hp that's already available to them much less need more. If only 10% of ZL1 owners are willing to mod their cars with factory parts then GM certainly wont spend the time and money to get the parts certified with no return on investment. You can thank the EPA and CAFE for this. IF GM comes out with some performance parts it will be minor bolt-ons and a mild tune reflash that they didn't have to spend $1M to certify. They would have to choose to release the parts and completely eat the cost with no revenue generation or return. With the Gen 6 just around the corner I don't see it happening from a business standpoint. Its just not cost effective for them to do it especially with the millions they've already invested in the direct injection engine family that's coming.

That's the fallacy of this whole thing with the camaro not being able to chase after the mustang......its own brother the 'vette. Unfortunately, this could be the linchpin that will keep the camaro from being a serious contender to the gt500. My argument is that the camaro has to fight...compete... since it entered the ring with the gt500. Because the gt500 armed itself to do battle, it seems that some folks (even some in gm's camp) are content to feel that the camaro can't or won't compete. Handling is a great thing, but the ZL1 promised to be an all around competitor. So far its having its issues with dealing with the GT500 in terms of acceleration.

Good thing you mentioned that 'Had they known Ford was going to choose to make such a radical jump and completely reclass the GT500 then of course GM would've followed suit with the ZL1.' (my apologies for cut and pasting). This is another issue that annoys me. GM-Chevy should have known or anticipated that this was going to be a dog-fight. GM should have made provisions for modifications and improvement in the event that ford would retaliate. It appears that GM had no idea of how aggressive ford would become in this battle. My point...to sum it up...is that its too late for excuses, 'top dog card clauses', bottom line rationalizing, etc. If you're in the ring, then you either fight or go home.

[RoketRdr]

Originally Posted by brucedd

I think almost 100% would do the factory upgrade with warranty, not sure why only a 10% number is estimated?

Great car no doubt. Still better with a factory upgrade.

Like to see GM do something for pride not just bottom line anyway. Say what you will, the 13 Shelby was sand kicked in the face with no reply so far. Rationalize however makes you feel better.

I want a factory warranteed upgrade.

Feel better? Since my vehicles never remain stock and warranty means nothing to me I really don't care what Ford, Dodge or even Chevy produces out of the factory. If I want my car faster I just write a bigger check. So I don't have a need to "feel better" about the performance of a stock ZL1 vs stock GT500 as my car won't have a problem thrashing the stock snake when I'm done with it. But...rationalize is what business owners like GM do when they don't want to throw money out the door. Its called proper ROI analysis and due diligence because they're in the business of making money not loosing it or giving it away. GM already has their pride in the Z06 and ZR1 so throwing money out the window to chase the pony snake that's trying to run with their top level cars is not something GM is going to do. Especially when it would spit in the face of Z06 and ZR1 owners. Ford was very well aware of this when they decided to make the 2013 GT500 what it is. They knew GM wouldn't chase down that road with them at the risk of losing loyal Vette owners and down playing their flagship. But those who produced the ZL1 should in every right be proud of what they accomplished because its definitely nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about. Ford chose to play a political game and that has nothing to do with how well the ZL1 performs. 580hp pump gas production cars that get almost 20mpg with warranty is nothing to be ashamed of. Anywho...you talk as if every ZL1 owner is registered on this forum looking to mod their cars. In actuality only about 10-20%, maybe 25% on the top end, will mod their cars as there's plenty of people who bought them to sit in a garage thinking its going to gain value. And there are the majority of owners (well over 50%) who will just drive the car without doing anything to it and will never see a mod or a race. Saying that 100% of ZL1 owners would mod their cars is pretty irrational. The tuners know they're only dealing with a small percentage of actual owners and that's why the competition level is so high among them. The CTS-V community will give you an idea of how many owners actually mod their cars vs how many just buy it and drive it. As far as the sand in the face...the car has only been on the street for a few months. Its not like GM has sat around for a couple of years thinking about it. This is the most powerful Camaro they have ever built so I don't think their feelings are hurt over what they produced especially since Ford decided to target the Corvette's. IF GM is going to make a response they have to get the parts certified and that takes time. They can't get around the law. They can't just produce whatever they want, when they want as fast as they want. EPA...CAFE. Those are the governing laws determining what GM can do and how fast. Or if they can even do it at all. But sand in the face? No...Ford has now stuck the GT500 somewhere between ZL1 and ZR1 knowing GM can't make a move without insulting either the Vette or Camaro communities. SO...we will have to wait and see which group GM chooses to tick off. I will bet my last dollar that they won't choose to spit in the face of the Vette owners. But at the same time I do hope they will at least produce some CAI's and factory tune reflashing with a warranty so that most of the ZL1 owners that want these mods can have them without sacrificing. I think they could at lease come up with those minor items without making the EPA and their bottom line upset.

[RoketRdr]

Originally Posted by lbls1

That's the fallacy of this whole thing with the camaro not being able to chase after the mustang......its own brother the 'vette. Unfortunately, this could be the linchpin that will keep the camaro from being a serious contender to the gt500. My argument is that the camaro has to fight...compete... since it entered the ring with the gt500. Because the gt500 armed itself to do battle, it seems that some folks (even some in gm's camp) are content to feel that the camaro can't or won't compete. Handling is a great thing, but the ZL1 promised to be an all around competitor. So far its having its issues with dealing with the GT500 in terms of acceleration.

Good thing you mentioned that 'Had they known Ford was going to choose to make such a radical jump and completely reclass the GT500 then of course GM would've followed suit with the ZL1.' (my apologies for cut and pasting). This is another issue that annoys me. GM-Chevy should have known or anticipated that this was going to be a dog-fight. GM should have made provisions for modifications and improvement in the event that ford would retaliate. It appears that GM had no idea of how aggressive ford would become in this battle. My point...to sum it up...is that its too late for excuses, 'top dog card clauses', bottom line rationalizing, etc. If you're in the ring, then you either fight or go home.

Very well said. Unfortunately guys this is where we're at with the ZL1 vs GT500 fight. Ford did this at precisely the right time because they knew GM would have to choose which community of loyal owners to tick off and they knew GM has already been in process with the Gen 6 and the C7 Vette's. You said it right...now GM has to decide which fight they are going to pursue.

[lbls1]

Well.........look on the bright side. At least we have our pick on which high-powered car to choose from. We couldn't necessarily say that a decade and a half ago. Even ten years ago 300+ factory hp was considered good.

I just don't like compromises in a car fight. Eh....we'll live lol!

[RoketRdr]

Originally Posted by lbls1

Well.........look on the bright side. At least we have our pick on which high-powered car to choose from. We couldn't necessarily say that a decade and a half ago. Even ten years ago 300+ factory hp was considered good.

I just don't like compromises in a car fight. Eh....we'll live lol!

Heck I remember when we thought 285hp was unbelievable and they could never top that. In the GM camp we've had victory and success for far too long. Spoiled for way too many years. Now the shoe is on the other foot for once and we don't like it. :( Gotta hand it to Ford. They came out with all guns blazing at exactly the right moment and they're finally getting their revenge. Life must go on.

[RockyS18]

Originally Posted by tpower

I may need a stage 3

[BiggFoot]

Come on GM let's see a 417 Stroker, GT-9 cam, and 2.9L Whipple on the 2014 ZL1. Add an extra 10K to the price . . . I would be in. Oh yeah, and you would blow the GT-500 out of the water with this setup.

[04svtsnke]

A lot of you are wishful thinkers and I guess we all are in a sense since these long wars won't be around forever( maybe not even a few more years). With that said, a feasible staged package could consist of CAI/tuner and a CAI/pulley/tuner upgrade. Exhaust is optional. Besides that as some have said the timing is horrible and it wouldn't make sense to have huge power packages when the car will be changed( possibly an entirely different car/power train) in a couple years. We have no idea what either company will offer on their next platforms but I'm positive ford isnt pitting their top dog against the number 2 or 3 in Chevys lineup. As a matter of fact, they were never focused I the camaro when building the gt500 and it's almost a garantee they'll be focused on the c7 zo6 and not the camaro in any version. As many of you stated, where your screwed is your hp limited from the factory because you aren't the top dog. If you were then things would be different. I'd still be optimistic that Chevy will do something as I'm sure they've seen how upset some people are in the straight line performance comparison of said cars. Honestly speaking, the magnetic ride suspension is absolutely fantastic and the gt500 shouldn't be as close and in some instances winning in any of the road course battles. Chevy better do something because I'm loving the pony wars!

[HDRDTD]

Originally Posted by BiggFoot

Come on GM let's see a 417 Stroker, GT-9 cam, and 2.9L Whipple on the 2014 ZL1. Add an extra 10K to the price . . . I would be in. Oh yeah, and you would blow the GT-500 out of the water with this setup.

And what if Ford ups the HP on the GT-500 as well?

[Taintedveins]

Okay so let me get this straight reviews state the ZL1 is the better car, and yet because the mustang is more powerful we lose? Last I checked the ZL1 can compete pretty darn well with all the cars in its class as it was designed to do, GM played their cards right because at this point the ball is in GMs Court and if they let mustang be a temporary top dog then we will see a similar event happen as when the 2010 Camaros came out. Their power and performance was rare even in the v6. Next Gen will be dominated by us once again, watch MRS funnel down into more of GMs vehicles and see what kind of weight and power we will be dealing with. If we manage to get 20-30 more hp from the new engines as well as a track ready performance all while being lighter then why complain?

[OldScoolCamaro]

This is the best poll I have seen in along time IMHO. Note to GM: Can we please get a factory stage 2 upgrade with a warranty that the LSA so obviously needs. The ZL1 needs nothing else.

[brucedd]

Originally Posted by RoketRdr

Feel better? Since my vehicles never remain stock and warranty means nothing to me I really don't care what Ford, Dodge or even Chevy produces out of the factory. If I want my car faster I just write a bigger check. So I don't have a need to "feel better" about the performance of a stock ZL1 vs stock GT500 as my car won't have a problem thrashing the stock snake when I'm done with it. But...rationalize is what business owners like GM do when they don't want to throw money out the door. Its called proper ROI analysis and due diligence because they're in the business of making money not loosing it or giving it away. GM already has their pride in the Z06 and ZR1 so throwing money out the window to chase the pony snake that's trying to run with their top level cars is not something GM is going to do. Especially when it would spit in the face of Z06 and ZR1 owners. Ford was very well aware of this when they decided to make the 2013 GT500 what it is. They knew GM wouldn't chase down that road with them at the risk of losing loyal Vette owners and down playing their flagship. But those who produced the ZL1 should in every right be proud of what they accomplished because its definitely nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about. Ford chose to play a political game and that has nothing to do with how well the ZL1 performs. 580hp pump gas production cars that get almost 20mpg with warranty is nothing to be ashamed of. Anywho...you talk as if every ZL1 owner is registered on this forum looking to mod their cars. In actuality only about 10-20%, maybe 25% on the top end, will mod their cars as there's plenty of people who bought them to sit in a garage thinking its going to gain value. And there are the majority of owners (well over 50%) who will just drive the car without doing anything to it and will never see a mod or a race. Saying that 100% of ZL1 owners would mod their cars is pretty irrational. The tuners know they're only dealing with a small percentage of actual owners and that's why the competition level is so high among them. The CTS-V community will give you an idea of how many owners actually mod their cars vs how many just buy it and drive it. As far as the sand in the face...the car has only been on the street for a few months. Its not like GM has sat around for a couple of years thinking about it. This is the most powerful Camaro they have ever built so I don't think their feelings are hurt over what they produced especially since Ford decided to target the Corvette's. IF GM is going to make a response they have to get the parts certified and that takes time. They can't get around the law. They can't just produce whatever they want, when they want as fast as they want. EPA...CAFE. Those are the governing laws determining what GM can do and how fast. Or if they can even do it at all. But sand in the face? No...Ford has now stuck the GT500 somewhere between ZL1 and ZR1 knowing GM can't make a move without insulting either the Vette or Camaro communities. SO...we will have to wait and see which group GM chooses to tick off. I will bet my last dollar that they won't choose to spit in the face of the Vette owners. But at the same time I do hope they will at least produce some CAI's and factory tune reflashing with a warranty so that most of the ZL1 owners that want these mods can have them without sacrificing. I think they could at lease come up with those minor items without making the EPA and their bottom line upset.

You miss my point, and end up supporting my argument without even realizing it. I think your estimates of ZL1 owners that will "mod" their ZL1s is about right if said mods void their warranty. this thread is about the desire for manufacturer approved "upgrades" that would leave the warranty intact. My point is that most all ZL1 owners would go for that "upgrade".

I puposely diffentiate the "upgrade" from a "mod" here ONLY to make the point that ZL1 owners (I am one, are you?) would also write the check to add one more "after purchase option" to gain more warrantied horsepower.

If that is merely a CAI, a pulley, and a tune that when done by GM maintains the warranty, we are likely all in (those that would mod anyway plus those that wouldn't otherwise because loss of warranty. If you were to buy the same exact parts and do it yourself or have a tuner do it, but void the warranty, most will not.

Chevy chose to play a "political game" too, they lost. Ford trumped them with the 650 HP GT500 at the very announcement of the vert. I think you either enter the ring, or stay home. We are in the ring already, so why not keep swinging? The judges scorecards all have a decision for ZL1, but why not still just knock the Shelby out? I know I am very disappointed that the CTS-V will take me in the quarter, I am more disappointed at the gap the Shelby will take me by. This just simply should not be.

ADD HP AS A WARRANTIED AFTER PURCHASE OPTION. In the end, we are saying the same thing.