[mariojmoe]

Originally Posted by newmoon

And other than the model years of 2010, 2016, and 2017, the Mustang GT's torque-less Coyote has been faster

Now this is the 100% truth spoken

[BlaqWhole]

The Mustang had the weight advantage at that point. And they were still on the ancient solid axle. As soon as they switched to IRS on the S550 platform they lost the weight advantage. And then look what happened. Even the HP bump couldn't help them. It actually got slower than the 11-14. And even throughout the time when it was faster it was no more than 2 tenths which is well within a driver's race. So it really wasn't a World of a difference like it was when the 6th Gen Camaro showed up. That was a massacre.

[Martinjlm]

Here's an interesting review....It's PP1, not PP2

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Here's an interesting review....It's PP1, not PP2

That's an interesting review. What strikes me as a common theme in the reviews of the 6th Gen, is how many emotional reposnses the reviewers give when driving the Camaro. They do a lot of "wow, holy crap" type of expressions. The amount of fun factor can't be hidden when driving these cars. You don't really see that with other cars as much. This car turns everyone to a kid on christmas morning opening all the great presents. The "wow" factor is amazing.

[SecondZ28]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

I think Dodge may drop one more fat N/A motor for the 2020 MY (Anniversary of the 426 Hemi Challenger)..rumors say 550 HP but we'll see...

It looks like it's only going to be a crate motor, not going into the production car.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

This car turns everyone to a kid on christmas morning opening all the great presents. The "wow" factor is amazing.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

That's an interesting review. What strikes me as a common theme in the reviews of the 6th Gen, is how many emotional reposnses the reviewers give when driving the Camaro. They do a lot of "wow, holy crap" type of expressions. The amount of fun factor can't be hidden when driving these cars. You don't really see that with other cars as much. This car turns everyone to a kid on christmas morning opening all the great presents. The "wow" factor is amazing.

What a great review for the Chevy. The Camaro is “purr....fect!”

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

That's an interesting review. What strikes me as a common theme in the reviews of the 6th Gen, is how many emotional reposnses the reviewers give when driving the Camaro. They do a lot of "wow, holy crap" type of expressions. The amount of fun factor can't be hidden when driving these cars. You don't really see that with other cars as much. This car turns everyone to a kid on christmas morning opening all the great presents. The "wow" factor is amazing.

Nailed it with the "kid on Christmas morning" part

The conclusion tingles me a bit, hehe ("I need one of these [1LE] in my life sooo bad... what am I gonna give up working on these stupid BMW's and just buy a Chevy"). He focuses on what matters and what makes me smile every time I drive my car, too. Total confidence, insane low end power and excellent, reliable and precise handling. And mine isn't even a 1LE.

Of course now he's accused of being a fanboy... looking at his previous videos, it would be a long shot even though he did test the 1LE separately earlier. The Mustang sounds very good, that has to be given to it, but even that is down to personal preference IMO, the Camaro's sound is simply different.

(BTW, this review makes one wonder again how in the world this car does/did not sell better. But I'd rather not try to hijack this thread with a rehash, there are a million others specifically about sales.)

[chain777]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Nailed it with the "kid on Christmas morning" part

The conclusion tingles me a bit, hehe ("I need one of these [1LE] in my life sooo bad... what am I gonna give up working on these stupid BMW's and just buy a Chevy"). He focuses on what matters and what makes me smile every time I drive my car, too. Total confidence, insane low end power and excellent, reliable and precise handling. And mine isn't even a 1LE.

Of course now he's accused of being a fanboy... looking at his previous videos, it would be a long shot even though he did test the 1LE separately earlier. The Mustang sounds very good, that has to be given to it, but even that is down to personal preference IMO, the Camaro's sound is simply different.

(BTW, this review makes one wonder again how in the world this car does/did not sell better. But I'd rather not try to hijack this thread with a rehash, there are a million others specifically about sales.)

Maybe it seems like a fanboy review because he dismisses or omits any of the problems that contribute to the lack of sales to anyone who isn't already a fan of the car.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by chain777

Maybe it seems like a fanboy review because he dismisses or omits any of the problems that contribute to the lack of sales to anyone who isn't already a fan of the car.

He did that on both sides, though. Never harped on the typically mentioned shortcomings of the Mustang either. This is by no means an exhaustive and highly objective, fact-after-fact-and-no-personal-opinion kind of review, yet it does show how appealing many qualities of the Camaro are (and is a ton of fun to watch, heh).

I tend to think it's mostly the marketing and, to a lesser extent, pricing that is causing the sales slump. I find it hard to believe things like rear visibility, high beltline, small trunk opening, little rear headroom would seriously deter people who would otherwise actually consider a Camaro. Rear visibility sucks completely on our 3-row SUV, too, and no one really cares.

I have three kids, they have no problem sitting in the back seat of the Camaro, I can fetch groceries if needed... okay, golf bags or two suitcases may not fit in the trunk and I can't take telephoto shots through the rear windshield, but seriously, would these alone make people choose the Challenger or the Mustang? Things like a full digital cluster, front and/or 360 camera, a little more horsepower would all be nice, but these aren't dealbreakers. Seems that most buyers believe the Mustang is the cool, modern sports car and the Challenger is the only real brawny muscle car, and it's the lack of marketing that doesn't leave much room here for the Camaro.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by chain777

Maybe it seems like a fanboy review because he dismisses or omits any of the problems that contribute to the lack of sales to anyone who isn't already a fan of the car.

How exactly would you or anyone know what is contributing to the "lack of sales"? Or, better yet, how would you know how this "lack of sales" is affecting GM without knowing all the details? For all you know, they could be selling enough of them at such a high profit margin that they're making money hand over fist. Meanwhile, for all any of us know, Ford could be drowning considering how many huge discounts the dealerships are throwing at people. And how does sales actually figure into the performance of these vehicles?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

How exactly would you or anyone know what is contributing to the "lack of sales"? Or, better yet, how would you know how this "lack of sales" is affecting GM without knowing all the details? For all you know, they could be selling enough of them at such a high profit margin that they're making money hand over fist. Meanwhile, for all any of us know, Ford could be drowning considering how many huge discounts the dealerships are throwing at people. And how does sales actually figure into the performance of these vehicles?

Well based on some comments made earlier this year by GM I would say it's safe to say they are not thrilled with the sales numbers.(and the fact the sales thread gets buried every time it comes up there I said it) Not enough to panic, but clearly enough that they are concerned.

And also that is a fair point on the Mustang as well. Dealers could be so willing/desperate to move them that they just throwing discounts on them to move them

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Well based on some comments made earlier this year by GM I would say it's safe to say they are not thrilled with the sales numbers.(and the fact the sales thread gets buried every time it comes up there I said it) Not enough to panic, but clearly enough that they are concerned.

And also that is a fair point on the Mustang as well. Dealers could be so willing/desperate to move them that they just throwing discounts on them to move them

The sales thread getting buried has nothing to do with Chevrolet tho. That is specific to this site. I'm sure they are concerned about it. But I highly doubt they're in any type of state of being overly worried. I would think they'd do something more drastic with their advertising and discounts if it was much concern for them. And to me it doesn't seem like they're doing anything more than they've been doing. So let me ask another question. Since we're talking about sales, what is the percentage of Camaros being sold? Can someone at least tell me that? Or are we all just gonna harp on sales sales sales for the next few years and not look at all the details? Like I said, sales alone means absolutely nothing. Look at the Challenger and Charger. They sold horribly for a very long time. Yet they offered no discounts and never really put any effort into improving sales until recently. But they went 5-8 years or more with abysmal sales and they're doing fine. Again, sales alone means absolutely nothing.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The sales thread getting buried has nothing to do with Chevrolet tho. That is specific to this site. I'm sure they are concerned about it. But I highly doubt they're in any type of state of being overly worried. I would think they'd do something more drastic with their advertising and discounts if it was much concern for them. And to me it doesn't seem like they're doing anything more than they've been doing. So let me ask another question. Since we're talking about sales, what is the percentage of Camaros being sold? Can someone at least tell me that? Or are we all just gonna harp on sales sales sales for the next few years and not look at all the details? Like I said, sales alone means absolutely nothing. Look at the Challenger and Charger. They sold horribly for a very long time. Yet they offered no discounts and never really put any effort into improving sales until recently. But they went 5-8 years or more with abysmal sales and they're doing fine. Again, sales alone means absolutely nothing.

You have a fair point, sales alone don't tell enough of the story. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see they aren't moving as well as planned though. Not enough to panic, but it is obvious they aren't moving as well as anticipated. How did I come to that conclusion.

YTD the sales are down 25% from the previous year. Now it was year 3 before the refresh hit so you expect sales to taper off, not by that much though.

You can look at the inventory of cars, as the biggest factor of them not moving as well as anticipated. It isn't the most 100% accurate method to check, but according to cars.com there is over 16,300 new Camaros for sale nation wide. Of that 16,300 vehicles, 3500 are 2017 models. Thats almost 20% of the cars for sale are 2 model years old by now. The amount of inventory they are pumping out tells me they are expecting it to move similar to other cars in it's class.

Compared to the Mustang which according to cars.com has 13,933 vehicles for sale, and of that only 205 are from model year 2017.

So we have a car with a lot of excess inventory, and excessive old inventory that point to it not selling well. While they have held firm and not really had huge firesales, Camaro has been included in the 20% of MSRP sale before. What else have they done to try and get the car moving? they added a 1LS trim, to have a lower entry point. They added the 1LE to the 4 cylinder to try and spark interest in the car, and now they also have a 3LT trim for the base engine cars. All efforts to get more people into the base cars because as a lot of people here forget the base cars is where the volume is. the base car needs to succeed so we can have choices like SS and ZL1.

So factoring in those, I would say it would be a safe guess to say they are concerned about the sales or at the very least internally not thrilled with it. But not to the point where they are panicking.

And personally I think the sales thread getting buried has to do with orders from up top, but thats a conspiracy theory for another day