[Dixie ZL1]

Originally Posted by oldman

Just saying for the guys that will only buy a manual Vette.....

Me, I know my M6 gen 6 Camaro is the last manual I'll buy new...

That would be me..... I won’t buy an automatic car for track duty. GM engines make massive torque from low RPM.... why would you put 8 or 10 ratios behind that when you can keep a single gear with the same torque and accelerate from corner to corner?

C7 ZR1 track guys are buying the M7 and this is why.

[oldman]

hate to tell you this, HP is a unit of work and it applied area under the curve that = acceleration. So the more gears, the less HP drop between the gears. Historically the only trade-off would be the loss of power while shifting, all that is change with a DSG, which for all intense and purposes is an "auto".

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by Dixie ZL1

That would be me..... I won’t buy an automatic car for track duty. GM engines make massive torque from low RPM.... why would you put 8 or 10 ratios behind that when you can keep a single gear with the same torque and accelerate from corner to corner?

C7 ZR1 track guys are buying the M7 and this is why.

I hate to tell you but I’ve watched several track test with a Camaro SS and ZL1 using auto vs manual and the auto is just as quick at a race track and faster at a drag strip. That is SS vs SS and ZL1 vs ZL1 Most the guys on the forum are weekend track guys and don’t have near the talent as the pros so auto are going to favor the weekend warriors.

At this point the only reason to own a manual is just because it is fun to drive. And there is nothing wrong with that but less and less people are buying manual transmission

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

I hate to tell you but I’ve watched several track test with a Camaro SS and ZL1 using auto vs manual and the auto is just as quick at a race track and faster at a drag strip. That is SS vs SS and ZL1 vs ZL1 Most the guys on the forum are weekend track guys and don’t have near the talent as the pros so auto are going to favor the weekend warriors.

At this point the only reason to own a manual is just because it is fun to drive. And there is nothing wrong with that but less and less people are buying manual transmission

that would be a sticky... topic closed.

[Dixie ZL1]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

I hate to tell you but I’ve watched several track test with a Camaro SS and ZL1 using auto vs manual and the auto is just as quick at a race track and faster at a drag strip. That is SS vs SS and ZL1 vs ZL1 Most the guys on the forum are weekend track guys and don’t have near the talent as the pros so auto are going to favor the weekend warriors.

At this point the only reason to own a manual is just because it is fun to drive. And there is nothing wrong with that but less and less people are buying manual transmission

First point.... don’t care about the drag strip, but yes, the A10 is quicker there but the C8 corvette isn’t a drag car

Second...... HP is a calculated value and only torque under the curve counts. Don’t know when you last attended a road race track day, but for me it’s all about building skill driving my M6 ZL1. I’ll pull 3500 - 6500 all day long in 2nd or 3rd gear while the A10 driver is trying to figure out what his car took an extra upshift blew his entrance to the next straight.

Spend time at road track events and you’ll see.

[Dixie ZL1]

In the end.... I hope GM will listen to customers like Porsche did and once again offer a manual trans. Porsche called end of life to the manual (and the PDK is an excellent setup I’ve had the opportunity the track) and has reintroduced it for the models people “like to drive” instead of those people like to be “seen driving in”.

[Dixie ZL1]

Doesn’t mater what we say here on the Camaro forum..... this is what GM is reading, so it’s what matters.... more the clutch patent.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-on-sales.html

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by Dixie ZL1

First point.... don’t care about the drag strip, but yes, the A10 is quicker there but the C8 corvette isn’t a drag car

Second...... HP is a calculated value and only torque under the curve counts. Don’t know when you last attended a road race track day, but for me it’s all about building skill driving my M6 ZL1. I’ll pull 3500 - 6500 all day long in 2nd or 3rd gear while the A10 driver is trying to figure out what his car took an extra upshift blew his entrance to the next straight.

Spend time at road track events and you’ll see.

I’ve been to several events Memphis has a track right outside Millington Tn.

The ZL1 10 speed auto in track mode does a very good job but if you need a little more control just go to paddle shift and you know the gear your in and by the way it shifts a hell of a lot faster than you can with a manual

Go check out Motor Trend, they did a really good test with Randy Pobst with an auto vs manual ZL1

Nothing wrong with a manual fun to drive but the C8 DCT it’s going to be really good track car.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

The ZL1 10 speed auto in track mode does a very good job but if you need a little more control just go to paddle shift and you know the gear your in and by the way it shifts a hell of a lot faster than you can with a manual

Just realize that lap times are not as sensitive to faster shifting as the amount faster suggests. I.e. 5 upshifts that are each 0.4 seconds faster will not net you a 2 second lap time improvement. I'd be surprised if faster downshifts buy you any lap time improvement at all over heel-toe'ing with a conventional MT.

Nothing wrong with a manual fun to drive but the C8 DCT it’s going to be really good track car.

Track use is the easy part to get right.

It'll be interesting to find out how good they get the shift logic and calibration worked out with respect to part-throttle and stop-and-go driving.


Norm

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

I hate to tell you but I’ve watched several track test with a Camaro SS and ZL1 using auto vs manual and the auto is just as quick at a race track and faster at a drag strip. That is SS vs SS and ZL1 vs ZL1 Most the guys on the forum are weekend track guys and don’t have near the talent as the pros so auto are going to favor the weekend warriors.

At this point the only reason to own a manual is just because it is fun to drive. And there is nothing wrong with that but less and less people are buying manual transmission

What other reason is there?

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

What other reason is there?

For some folks, the fact that they are generally less expensive than an automatic is a reason to buy one.

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

For some folks, the fact that they are generally less expensive than an automatic is a reason to buy one.

The bigger reason for me is long term repair costs. DCT is about a $10K transmission and they are not generally as robust as a conventional manual. Also clutches are more expensive and fail much quicker too.

As a weekend warrior track guy (no longer but I used to be so I can relate) I am not looking for the last 1/10 of a second lap time. I am looking to bring the car home in one piece - especially if we are talking HPDE and you drive the car to the event. you can improve seconds a lap just in drivers technique and I doubt there are many drivers at a HPDE (unless Randy is there!) that can even approach the limits of a gen 6 SS or C5Z06 let alone a C7 or a C8.

Anyway - point being I wouldn't want to be doing extensive track time in a car with a potential $10K time bomb sitting in the back of it. Even if it's faster. If I was a pro race car driver and the team owned the car and paid for all the repairs and consumables then sure - sign me up! But I'm not.
I did road race in the NASA CMC series on the west coast - and there were a few of those drivers that did catch pro deals from time to time. But for most of us even in a race series it was a car worth maybe $10K but the racing costs were far more than what the car was worth. I can't even imagine how that would scale up with a C8. That's not really what it was designed for either - IMHO.

[Memphis SS]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Just realize that lap times are not as sensitive to faster shifting as the amount faster suggests. I.e. 5 upshifts that are each 0.4 seconds faster will not net you a 2 second lap time improvement. I'd be surprised if faster downshifts buy you any lap time improvement at all over heel-toe'ing with a conventional MT.


Track use is the easy part to get right.

It'll be interesting to find out how good they get the shift logic and calibration worked out with respect to part-throttle and stop-and-go driving.


Norm

Also, you're kind of basing your times off the guy in the manual always making good shifts and never missing a gear. Humm I've been to the track that not always the case. But I understand guys in manuals have good races

At this point, fewer people are picking the manual which comes back to why GM is moving away from that platform in the C8.

Here is the question of the day:

If less than say 1000 people complain about the manual going away and you're selling your complete allocation of the C8 Corvette after adding a second shift and still can't meet demand. Why would you add the manual?

This is the current status on the C8.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

For some folks, the fact that they are generally less expensive than an automatic is a reason to buy one.

Originally Posted by c4racer

The bigger reason for me is long term repair costs. DCT is about a $10K transmission and they are not generally as robust as a conventional manual. Also clutches are more expensive and fail much quicker too.

As a weekend warrior track guy (no longer but I used to be so I can relate) I am not looking for the last 1/10 of a second lap time. I am looking to bring the car home in one piece - especially if we are talking HPDE and you drive the car to the event. you can improve seconds a lap just in drivers technique and I doubt there are many drivers at a HPDE (unless Randy is there!) that can even approach the limits of a gen 6 SS or C5Z06 let alone a C7 or a C8.

Anyway - point being I wouldn't want to be doing extensive track time in a car with a potential $10K time bomb sitting in the back of it. Even if it's faster. If I was a pro race car driver and the team owned the car and paid for all the repairs and consumables then sure - sign me up! But I'm not.
I did road race in the NASA CMC series on the west coast - and there were a few of those drivers that did catch pro deals from time to time. But for most of us even in a race series it was a car worth maybe $10K but the racing costs were far more than what the car was worth. I can't even imagine how that would scale up with a C8. That's not really what it was designed for either - IMHO.

I actually meant, what other reason is there to own a performance car than to have fun.