[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

There has to be more to it than that. The Z28 is a good cornering car. But I don't think it corners as well as the GT350R. If we're seeing different drivers with different skill levels, even amongst pros, piloting different cars and on tracks that are suited for different types of engines and the way these engines make power, then I can see the Z28 keeping up. But I don't think the Z28 is as capable as the Shelby.

That is what you are seeing. LL I believe, has the editors do the hot laps, so they are done with drivers of different skill. MT has Randy a professional driver do the hot laps.

There is also the different day/weather scenario.

Case in point this years lightning Lap, they said a few of the cars had more in them, but the track conditions weren't the best as they had heavy rain leading up to the event.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

If that is the case and this particular track plays to the Z28's particular strengths and all the Shelby's weaknesses are exploited here then the exact opposite can happen. There can be tracks that play to the Shelby's strengths and exploit the Z28's weaknesses as well. In which case neither car is actually better. It's just that some cars are better suited for some tracks and not as good on other tracks.

Exactly! All things being equal even different times in a day can cause extreme variables. The upcoming "Best Drivers Car" had some cars driven in the morning when it was around 50* and foggy vs others driven in perfect 70*'s clear weather.

At the end of the day do your homework, buy the car that speaks to you and enjoy the crap out of it!!

[mjk3888]

Garbage driver in the ZL1 1LE for sure! Anyone else notice he just chucked it in 3rd and let the rev match peg off the limiter going into the very first turn. Definitely sloppy driving!

[chain777]

I think it's a good comparison test for the average driver of these cars. It's nice to fantasize about the ultimate times these cars are capable of in the hands of a pro, but these comparisons are more inline with what the reality is for most of us. How easy a car can be driven to it's limits in the real world with an average driver is more important to most people buying these cars. Unless you're just looking for numbers for bragging rights.

I doubt there's many people here with Randy Pobst skills.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm not a fan of the GT350/GT350R at all. Nor the Z28 for that matter. But I gotta say, realistically, something seems off if the 15 Z28 beat the 16 GT350R when the Shelby has convincingly beaten the Z28 in every other test and comparison I have seen. Something doesn't quite add up. Unless this particular track doesn't play up to the Shelby's strengths. I can see the ZL1s beating it. But I'm a little curious about the Z28 beating it. I hate to be the one to come to the Shelby's defense but it really IS a good cornering car and I can't see how the Z28 could beat it.

I've only remember the one head to head between the two which the GT350R won by a little over a second at Chuckwalla. Randy has run both cars at a few other tracks but not on the same day and was two seconds (1.7 seconds actually) faster at Laguna and a tenth faster at Willow springs (on different days). I agree with others that the Z/28 is not nearly as out classed as it's made out to be.
Different tracks are different as well. The way they do Lightning lap is they try to get as many cars on the track on the same day as possible and that requires them to use a bunch of drivers. Not ideal, but it is what it is.

I would love to see someone track them at VIR on the same day and see what happens. Then we would know if the track favors the Z/28 or if the conditions/ drivers were just that different to give the Z/28 the advantage.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by detltu

I've only remember the one head to head between the two which the GT350R won by a little over a second at Chuckwalla. Randy has run both cars at a few other tracks but not on the same day and was two seconds (1.7 seconds actually) faster at Laguna and a tenth faster at Willow springs (on different days). I agree with others that the Z/28 is not nearly as out classed as it's made out to be.
Different tracks are different as well. The way they do Lightning lap is they try to get as many cars on the track on the same day as possible and that requires them to use a bunch of drivers. Not ideal, but it is what it is.

I would love to see someone track them at VIR on the same day and see what happens. Then we would know if the track favors the Z/28 or if the conditions/ drivers were just that different to give the Z/28 the advantage.

I think the Z/28 was more of a shorter track car where as the ZL1 1LE does better on a track like Nurburgring.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Different Day different drivers.

Different day, but I believe they were same driver.

[glamcem]

from a data analysis standpoint, having different and/or amateur drivers for conducting this sort of tests is useless for having an idea of the car's actual performance.
Although it may look like it would give good idea for "real world example" the problem is average drivers are inconsistent so the data based on their inconsistency.
And I bet many people are more concerned about the car's limit vs some average guy's meaningless lap time. Also, average driver and ultra performance cars in a high speed track doesn't sound fit in the same sentence, for many reasons.

I personally couldn't care less about some X editor's inconsistent lap time with A car when compared to Y editor's on B car, that wouldn't give me anything about the comparison.

[Whitespeed]

Some cars are set up so only a professional driver can get anything close to the best out of them, and an average driver is just going to find it frustrating and difficult to achieve consistent, fast lap times. So how does that help to only provide data from professional drivers? Both are valuable.

Nigel

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by jdsgn

The Z/28 isn't nearly as outclassed by the R as some results make you believe. One owner I talked to with both a Z and GT350R says hes faster on his home track in the Z. It was a phenomenal car for what it was. Watching the head to head of the Z vs the GT350R on motor trend made me cringe. All of a sudden the car that had won "best drivers car" the year before and had heaps of praise from every rag out there suddenly was an over steering drift machine a year later. Something seemed off on that test.

From comments made by Randy tracks like Laguna Seca and Willow springs are slippery tracks due to dust/sand getting on the track. It is possible that on slippery tracks the GT350R is faster however on tracks with more grip the Z/28 wins.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Plus the ZL1, too. NB SS 1LE did 54.8 there last year. Given some published data it is amazing how good stock Goodyear S3 tires are, albeit S3R is a bit better. Enjoy!

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...l-data-feature

Already have a topic on it thats been home-paged.

Threads merged

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Whitespeed

Some cars are set up so only a professional driver can get anything close to the best out of them, and an average driver is just going to find it frustrating and difficult to achieve consistent, fast lap times. So how does that help to only provide data from professional drivers? Both are valuable.

Nigel

Well in any field or in any case, anyone who thinks they can perform on the level of a professional is out of their mind anyway. I mean, unless you can sit around and practice all day every day. When I see lap times I wanna see what the pros are doing but I'm reasonable enough to know that these guys are pros for a reason. It isn't like I'm just gonna take a ride to a track on a lazy Saturday afternoon and have the same results. Kinda like sports. You're not gonna play basketball on the weekends and be on the level of a NBA player.

[ZED SLED]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I hate to be the one to come to the Shelby's defense but it really IS a good cornering car and I can't see how the Z28 could beat it.

Stevenson Motorsports Z28s beat them in the CTSCC on a regular basis, with 500 lbs and a 1/2 inch ride height added

[Whitespeed]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well in any field or in any case, anyone who thinks they can perform on the level of a professional is out of their mind anyway. I mean, unless you can sit around and practice all day every day. When I see lap times I wanna see what the pros are doing but I'm reasonable enough to know that these guys are pros for a reason. It isn't like I'm just gonna take a ride to a track on a lazy Saturday afternoon and have the same results. Kinda like sports. You're not gonna play basketball on the weekends and be on the level of a NBA player.

Who said anything about performing at the level of a professional? I'm talking about cars that are inherently difficult to drive at the limit and only a professional is going to be able to get the most out of, but an average driver is just going to find frustrating and not be confident in. So, say you have two cars and in the hands of a professional, and car Y puts in a faster lap time than car X. But with the same cars in the hands of an amateur, car X puts in a faster lap time than Y because the amateur is more confident in car X. Note, I am NOT saying that the amateur's lap times are faster than those of the professional driver.

Nigel