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Old 01-20-2014, 01:36 PM   #43
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An event host publicly displaying timing sheets runs the risk of causing their attendees track collision insurance (if they have it) to be voided. I understand exactly what you are referring to, for example Speed Ventures does that. It's still an HPDE event as the times are not for the explicit purpose of scoring a competitive event. A manufacturer should understand this as well and therefore these times should not affect warranty.

Cars in a Time Attack type event where cars run explicitly competitively for time would usually not be covered by warranty. Maybe you get lucky and the dealer covers it, but the door is open for a decline.

In regards to insurance (vs warranty): Anyone driving their car on a "racing surface" for any reason would be strongly advised to contact their insurance agent beforehand or to plan on being self-insured from the moment they do until they leave the "surface". There are a couple insurance companies who explicitly cover HPDE events such as Lockton-Affinity.

Someone will want to argue this but the 99% true fact is, unless your insurance extends incredible one-time goodwill, street insurance will not cover on-track crash damage.

None of this should a grey area for a given event when subjected to objective consideration, it should be easy and straightforward for a driver to determine what kind of risk he is putting himself into for a given event. An on-track crash, not covered by insurance, of a financed car can be a catastrophically life changing event. Don't trust internet know-it-alls, do your homework.

I've personally done over 100 track days with a variety of hosts and I've hosted my own events so what I write is from that perspective.
Excellent post, so true. I buy track day insurance every time because of this (although it's adding up, so I'm tempted to not get it when I visit some of the safer tracks with lots of run off). Very few, if any, insurance providers today cover HPDE events, timing or no timing.

Locton Affinity HPDE Insurance does cover HPDE events with transponders (like Speed Ventures events) provided you don't participate in a time trial. The other HPDE insurance provider that I spoke with will not cover your car if you have a transponder and times are posted, even if you aren't participating in a time trial. For this reason I use Locton.

My friend did a Laguna Seca event a few weeks back, and a guy totalled a rental Mustang (I think it was a GT500, but I'm not sure). BIG mistake tracking a rental car. I'd hate to be that guy.
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:06 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Orange Crush 1LE View Post
Excellent post, so true. I buy track day insurance every time because of this (although it's adding up, so I'm tempted to not get it when I visit some of the safer tracks with lots of run off). Very few, if any, insurance providers today cover HPDE events, timing or no timing.

Locton Affinity HPDE Insurance does cover HPDE events with transponders (like Speed Ventures events) provided you don't participate in a time trial. The other HPDE insurance provider that I spoke with will not cover your car if you have a transponder and times are posted, even if you aren't participating in a time trial. For this reason I use Locton.

My friend did a Laguna Seca event a few weeks back, and a guy totalled a rental Mustang (I think it was a GT500, but I'm not sure). BIG mistake tracking a rental car. I'd hate to be that guy.
Excellent points!

I've had a variety of contact with the folks at Lockton, the guy behind their program is a tracker and an awesome person. I'd recommend Lockton to anyone without hesitation. You can also buy multiple event coverage at deep discounts.

Some tracks it is compelling to self-insure- lots of runoff or apron. Other tracks, your example Laguna Seca, eat cars at every event.
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:20 PM   #45
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Excellent post, so true. I buy track day insurance every time because of this (although it's adding up, so I'm tempted to not get it when I visit some of the safer tracks with lots of run off).
My friend did a Laguna Seca event a few weeks back, and a guy totalled a rental Mustang (I think it was a GT500, but I'm not sure). BIG mistake tracking a rental car. I'd hate to be that guy.
Hey! I just noticed your sig line- out of curiosity, what does your car run at Thunderhill? Either bypass or over the top? No judgement on your driving just trying to get a feeling for what a 1LE does there so I can make a better guess what the Z/28 will do.

I'd guess you run 2:10-2:15 over the top? I'm thinking the Z does 1:58 over the top? What do you think?

I read your post from July, good thread! I love running with Hooked on Driving, they are a great host. David Ray is such an incredible human being
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Old 01-20-2014, 04:40 PM   #46
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Hey! I just noticed your sig line- out of curiosity, what does your car run at Thunderhill? Either bypass or over the top? No judgement on your driving just trying to get a feeling for what a 1LE does there so I can make a better guess what the Z/28 will do.

I'd guess you run 2:10-2:15 over the top? I'm thinking the Z does 1:58 over the top? What do you think?

I read your post from July, good thread! I love running with Hooked on Driving, they are a great host. David Ray is such an incredible human being
Good question, I didn't time the Camaro when I ran it but had a lot of fun. I also have a Viper. I took the Viper there, first time in the Viper on any track and I ran a 2:05.4 in 107 degree weather. I've only run Thunderhill those two times, both times were over the top. I'm guessing the Z/28 would be under 2:10 with a good driver, maybe closer to 2:05, but I don't think it could dip below 2:00. That would really flying on that track for a stock car. Can't wait to get back there! Do you track there now, and if so what do you drive and what are your times?

Yes David's a great guy. In fact, I'm going to the HOD 10th Anniversary Party this Saturday.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:03 PM   #47
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Good question, I didn't time the Camaro when I ran it but had a lot of fun. I also have a Viper. I took the Viper there, first time in the Viper on any track and I ran a 2:05.4 in 107 degree weather. I've only run Thunderhill those two times, both times were over the top. I'm guessing the Z/28 would be under 2:10 with a good driver, maybe closer to 2:05, but I don't think it could dip below 2:00. That would really flying on that track for a stock car. Can't wait to get back there! Do you track there now, and if so what do you drive and what are your times?

Yes David's a great guy. In fact, I'm going to the HOD 10th Anniversary Party this Saturday.
Viper, wow, bold brave man you are What a handful.

My last time there was two years ago in a GT3RS on Trofeos. My best, and I am not a fast guy at that track was 2:01. My pals in GT3's on R6's run 1:57/1:58 and they are good drivers. I think the downforce of the Z helps it there, and in combo with the fat torque combined with the traction control to launch it out of the corners will put it under 2:00 bone stock.

Reno-Fernley is my home track and I am relatively quick there (know it very well). So that's going to be my touchstone comparison for the Z vs other cars I've driven.

Fast sweepers (Thunderhill) the Z should be quite quick. Transitions and more technical tracks (Reno-Fernley) is where I am concerned the weight will hurt. But I'm open minded. Regardless, listening to that 427 soundtrack and looking at that pretty body will be worth every penny

If you think to, tell David and Don that Pete said hello and I'll see them in the spring. I got the email invite to the party, looks awesome!
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:20 PM   #48
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Viper, wow, bold brave man you are What a handful.

My last time there was two years ago in a GT3RS on Trofeos. My best, and I am not a fast guy at that track was 2:01. My pals in GT3's on R6's run 1:57/1:58 and they are good drivers. I think the downforce of the Z helps it there, and in combo with the fat torque combined with the traction control to launch it out of the corners will put it under 2:00 bone stock.

Reno-Fernley is my home track and I am relatively quick there (know it very well). So that's going to be my touchstone comparison for the Z vs other cars I've driven.

Fast sweepers (Thunderhill) the Z should be quite quick. Transitions and more technical tracks (Reno-Fernley) is where I am concerned the weight will hurt. But I'm open minded. Regardless, listening to that 427 soundtrack and looking at that pretty body will be worth every penny

If you think to, tell David and Don that Pete said hello and I'll see them in the spring. I got the email invite to the party, looks awesome!
Man that's cooking, were the Porsches all bone stock other than the tires? Impressive. I'm still getting to know the track but can't wait to return. You've now set a new bar for me to aim for

I looked up Thunderhill on Fastlaps and if it weren't for the R6's your friends would take the production car record (if in fact Fastlaps is current, which it may not be).

My Viper is definitely difficult if the rear end comes loose, harder to save than my Camaro. But it is such an awesome car with very high limits. A very rewarding driving experience. Mines' a 2013, so it's easier to track than previous gens, and it finally has a safety net - ESC.

I'll tell them you said hello, and hopefully we'll meet up one day.
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Old 01-20-2014, 07:57 PM   #49
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The REAL "Z", Dual Use, UNLIMITED, 1000 clutch dumps at the drags, 7:41 at the Ring ..... is the ANSWER to everyones plights mentioned.... IMHO.

You all know what that is. Most Capable Street/Strip/Track car ever produced with a Camaro name on it.

ZL1. "Period"

Now, Go buy one if you haven't already. You will receive all the "extras" the most "track capable" Camaro ever does not, and in many cases, if you happen to get mixed up with one, you will likely show it your taillights. In the world 98% of Camaro owners live in .. that is.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:17 PM   #50
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...you'll see more of them at the coffee clutch than the track.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:18 PM   #51
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The REAL "Z", Dual Use, UNLIMITED, 1000 clutch dumps at the drags, 7:41 at the Ring ..... is the ANSWER to everyones plights mentioned.... IMHO.

You all know what that is. Most Capable Street/Strip/Track car ever produced with a Camaro name on it.

ZL1. "Period"

Now, Go buy one if you haven't already. You will receive all the "extras" the most "track capable" Camaro ever does not, and in many cases, if you happen to get mixed up with one, you will likely show it your taillights. In the world 98% of Camaro owners live in .. that is.
I got my SS about a year before the ZL1 came out....Thought about waiting for one, but now glad I didn't....For some reason hardly any ZL1s show up for auto-x, or even aftermarket supercharged SSs, they just can't seem to stay planted on the track without spinning out.....Only seen one ZL1 on a big track, (and it crashed)....The drags are fun, I've done it a bunch, but not worth buying a ZL-1 just for that....Just my preferences, as with anyone else's....

The Camaro world I see is more 98% SS and V-6...lol....a lot of "inexpensive" fun...
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:21 PM   #52
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I got my SS about a year before the ZL1 came out....Thought about waiting for one, but now glad I didn't....For some reason hardly any ZL1s show up for auto-x, or even aftermarket supercharged SSs, they just can't seem to stay planted on the track without spinning out.....Only seen one ZL1 on a big track, (and it crashed)....The drags are fun, I've done it a bunch, but not worth buying a ZL-1 just for that....Just my preferences, as with anyone else's....

The Camaro world I see is more 98% SS and V-6...lol....a lot of "inexpensive" fun...
...yes they are fun, and less expensive, but the WTF oh shit within an inch of your life factor isn't there with them like the ZL1...
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:13 PM   #53
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About tracking your Z28 as an OE car. Are you not limited to slower run group with a non equipped car?
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:40 PM   #54
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About tracking your Z28 as an OE car. Are you not limited to slower run group with a non equipped car?
With some (rare) exceptions, your run group assignment is purely, 100%, a factor of your tracking experience, skill (lap times) and the respect with that group that you've earned as a cooperative driver. I've run in various advanced groups with a 100% stock car (three-point belts, OE tires, no cage).

Keep your car on the track surface with no drama, show the situational awareness to get faster traffic around you quickly and safely, and you will be promoted to a more advanced run group.

SCCA seems to be the most restricted and I would say outdated of the bunch- for example they require a cage and harness in Time Trials and yet not in Club Trials. The wackiness being, some (many) cars in Club Trials run faster laps then the Time Trials group :-)
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:36 AM   #55
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Courageous, bold, gutsy move by Chevrolet. The first of its kind in the tracking community by a manufacturer.

The press release also provides additional information to those who do not understand the "track-day" concept, to help them learn what it is all about. And hopefully motivation to take their car to the track.

"Hooked on Driving Adds Chevrolet Corvette As National Sponsor

DANVILLE, CA – (Feb. 6, 2014) – Hooked on Driving announced today a new partnership with Chevrolet, to place 2014 Corvette Stingrays in high-performance driving events across the United States.

Hooked on Driving (HOD) was founded ten years ago by David Ray, who took a unique skill he had – the ability to drive a car safely at high speed on a race track – and used it to start a high-performance driving program unlike any other. These events were dedicated to building a passionate community of car lovers eager to experience skilled, high-speed driving on a closed course, and gain a deeper appreciation of their own cars' capabilities.

Hooked on Driving (HOD) aims to help make it possible for amateur drivers to capture the fun of driving on a race track in a safe, controlled environment. The group's coaches guide drivers to higher skill levels in their own cars, which typically represent a cross-section of high-performance marques from Germany, Italy, Japan and the U.S.

As part of the sponsorship, Corvette Stingrays will be available for HOD participants to experience, and if qualified, drive on the track at HOD events in its six regions – Northern California, Pacific Northwest, Great Lakes, Northeast, Southern States and Florida. Among the tracks that Hooked on Driving uses are, New Jersey Motorsports Park, Autobahn Country Club, Atlanta Motorsports Park, Homestead Miami and others.

“Partnering with Hooked on Driving provides two exciting opportunities for Chevrolet,” said Russ Clark, Corvette Marketing Director. “For our customers, it offers the chance to help them experience the full capabilities of their Chevrolets; for owners of competitive makes, it provides an opportunity to introduce them to the performance, design, and technology of the all-new Stingray.”

In a typical first session, a coach will ride in the passenger seat and teach the driver high-performance driving techniques in their own car. As is HOD's philosophy, all marques will continue to be welcome at its events.

"I see this as a big thumbs up to the enthusiast community from Chevrolet," said Ray, HOD founder and group leader. "They're willing to put the Corvette in front of savvy, well-informed car people. Corvette is an American icon and its seventh-generation model is the perfect example of a car that’s great fun on the track but can be driven every day around town."

HOD drivers can progress from the very basic Beginner group, where classroom theory and protocols are taught, through Intermediate to Advanced level driving skills. A driver can stay in a Beginner or intermediate group as long as they want, as long as they’re safe and having a good time. Coaches are vetted, trained volunteers that help keep the cost of programs down. HOD programs can be corporate events, client entertainment or a reward to employees.

Most cars are fine for HOD – all the owner needs to do is be certain it is in good working order. The rest is up to them, but the results show that many develop very good track skills. Some move on to serious competition in other venues. Ray is proud to acknowledge that HOD has spawned many top level competition drivers – many of whom have come back to coach.

About the Chevrolet

Founded in 1911 in Detroit, Chevrolet is now one of the world's largest car brands, doing business in more than 140 countries and selling more than 4.5 million cars and trucks a year. Chevrolet provides customers with fuel-efficient vehicles that feature spirited performance, expressive design, and high quality. More information on Chevrolet models can be found at www.chevrolet.com.

About Hooked on Driving

Hooked on Driving is a community of individuals who share a passion for driving their cars. Founded in 2004, HOD is meeting its goal of being the first true, trusted national brand of performance driving programs. Hooked on Driving currently operates in six key regions of the U.S. including: Northern California/Reno, Northeast U.S., Florida, Great Lakes, Southern States and the Pacific Northwest. The school is focused primarily on providing high performance driver training for those with capable cars, in the controlled environment of a race course – without the pressure of competition. More information on Hooked on Driving can be found at www.hookedondriving.com."
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:13 AM   #56
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There seems to be a lot of confusion (and intentional misdirection by some) about the Z/28's purpose in life.

It was born and lives to do "Track Days".

*Period*

It's obvious by 95% of the posts on here though that people have no idea what that means! I created a new thread in the Camaro "Tracking" forum (yes, there is such a thing!) explaining simply and clearly what "Tracking" is all about, links to cool videos, and telling a little bit about myself and my involvement as a credentialed SCCA driving instructor for many years with this insanely fun activity.

This is the direct link to that thread: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335710

I personally invite you to give it a visit and learn about this "hidden" fraternity of track-crack addicted nuts. The Z/28's pure mission in life is track days, and if you buy one you'll own one of the most supremely capable turn-key trackday cars ever made. I make that statement from experience in the paddocks and on tracks :-)

What non-track experienced people don't understand is the concept of taking a car to the track, that you can drive all day on track, for several days if you like, and not have it break. Steilow and teams goal was to build a car that is both fast and durable for lap after lap after lap. Any car has the possibility to be a one-lap wonder, but maybe you've never seen the dog-faced owners of cars that break down, overheat, lose the brakes, throw CEL's etc after that wonder lap.

I want to drive there, get my laps on, and drive home. Not sit around making excuses about why my car broke. Anyone here who has trackday experience knows exactly what I am taking about. Mustangs with failed brakes, overheating Nissan GT-R's, GT3's with broken clutches or coolant leaks. On and on.

The development team has directly stated the Z/28 was engineered to provide dependable, durable and fast laps. Value? Priceless!

Click the link, learn what tracking the Z/28 is really about, and I hope to see you at the track!

You forgot to mention that the warrantly covers failures during track use.
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