catch can importance?

[JOHNSONROD]

if you make lots of wide open pulls, you should get one. if you only street drive, you dont have to get one but it wouldnt hurt.
i clean mine out at every oil change and before and after each track event. the guys that arent seeing any oil in their can are not driving them at WFO enough to build pressure to cause blowby.
those thinking gm has their best interest at heart, and would put everything the car could possibly need for every driver in, are not thinking rationally or are inexperienced(like we all were once). if your going to drive a passanger car thats built for the masses, you will have to do the things that make the car last in those conditions. drag race guys add a stall and trans tune. guys who road track work on the suspension.

[JohnnyBfromPeoria]

Originally Posted by KaBoom1701

I live in Cali.

Will this effect EPA/Smog requirments? Probably won't have any effect. It certainly wouldn't make it worse, and could make emissions cleaner, I don't know.

can someone tell me how difficult/easy it is to install Easy. Really easy.

John B.

[RBL]

If you care about your engines performance as it ages you will run a catch can, if you do not care about its performance then no need to run a catch can.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBfromPeoria

Well, they didn't. Question is, will you? Personally, i don't care, I just end up posting after reading so many 'my friend's dad who knows a LOT about engines...' statements.

John B.

Pretty argumentative aren't ya? I came in here looking for answers and to have polite conversation. Sorry I struck a nerve. There are others here that have said they're absolutely F*CKING worthless. Go jump their nuts instead. I never claimed my Dad or his friends were the next coming of John Force. All I said was they were "big car guys". Having owned and maintained just about every American Muscle since the 60's. Anyways...can we continue with the debate/information?

[babytiger]

Originally Posted by RBL

If you care about your engines performance as it ages you will run a catch can, if you do not care about its performance then no need to run a catch can.

I don't see where a catch can is a performance item. Now if the Camaro has 200,000 miles on it and has never had the throttle body cleaned etc, then a catch can could have lessened some of that. But a catch can would in no way effect performance of a daily driver.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by Apex Chase

If GM had included a $125 catch can on every 5th Gen Camaros built through the end of the 2011 calender year is would have cost them just over $29 million just for the part alone.

Ok, if it's so imperative, then why not include the catch can and omit something that is purely cosmetic to make up the difference? Just a thought.

[KaBoom1701]

Well I think most of these cars are considered street legal daily drivers so GM considers the cost vs. benefit ratio acceptable. Since it appears there is very little oil leakage the added expense is not justified to have a catch can install from the factory.

I think most of us here at Camaro5 are "hyper" sensitive about our cars performance and maintenance so we tend to error on the side of caution and install these "small but useful" add on parts.

Just my 2 cents...

[bumblebeecamaro]

Originally Posted by Apex Chase

If GM had included a $125 catch can on every 5th Gen Camaros built through the end of the 2011 calender year is would have cost them just over $29 million just for the part alone.

$125 for an OCC is retail. there's no way GM would ever pay that much per unit if/when they included them on our cars. I'd say maybe $20 or near there. definitely not $125.

but as for my car? we put my Maggie 2300 on my car with only 300 miles. I could not believe how much oil was inside my intake with only 300 miles on the engine. that was reason alone for me to get a catch can.

[Wvlsxjunkie]

Run one.
I own three lsx powered vehicles and they all have one.
Its debatable, but I choose to run one for peace of mind.

Brad
8yrs as GM technician.

[SC2150]

Originally Posted by RollaMo

You will never have a verdit, either for or against.
All you will ever get are "opinions" of what someone else has "read someone".

People will post up links to threads all day, both for and against.
But once again, those are just forum opinions.

The COPO Camaro has one, because it is a "Race Car" with a race built engine.
Plus it does not have to meet federal emission laws.

The average Camaro running around on the street probably does not need one, and will happily survive to over 150,000 miles with proper maintenance.

Absolutely false. I always quote facts, include automotive engineering data, service bullitens form GM and every other manufacturer domestic and foriegn. and as an engine builder (not someone that just drives a car and puts gas in) I also have posted every piccture one could want to see of the actual effects.....Rolla is correct that most will survive fine, it is only for those that want the longest lasting, the best economy, the most power.....but the rest is pure BS. Al one has to do is search the threads here and read the actual GM bulletins on this issue. And emmissions have nothing to do with a catchcan......a properly installed catchcan has no deletion of anything to do with emmissions, but actually results in a cleaner exhaust emmission than w/out one. The reason the manufacturers do not include them can come down to a fraction of a cent and be nixed.....and a catchcan requires monthly draining.......99.9% of car and light truck buyers today want to run the cheapest gas (87 octaine), change oil the least interval possible, never check oil or fluids, and only visit a service center when the check engine light prompts them to do so.

It all comes down to budget, target market demographics, the legal dept, and the ivory tower execs.....it has nothing to do with building the best car/truck possible, it is meeting the price range of the target market and (I'm nearly 60) anyone that has actualy worked in the industry would tell you (not a junior peon...senoir engineers) they have tons of great solutions and improvements they would like to implement, but management will never approve (yes, even a .20 cent item).

Now on to my qualifications VS those with just opionions arguing against them.....over 38 years building engines, GM tech (Pontiac/olds/GMC truck dealership for years), graduate of Reher Morrison Race Engine Building, have owned, driven, managed some of the most successful drag teams in both NHRA & IHRA for ages, these hold multiple Divisional, National, and World Championships in several classes (not someone that goes to a test & tune now and then) in both NHRA & IHRA. Have disscussions regularly over the years with GM/Ford & Chrysler engineers on these and other issues, and sell these to multiple GM dealers where they are used to document excess oil consumption and as over 11,000 customers can attest to the results first hand. So, ask specific technical questions for any part of any of this anyone is in doubt of and I will provide the documentation to answer with facts, not opinions, not uneducated guesses, and no fight to wreck the thread.

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

I'm not arguing in any way, shape or form, but when you're buying a $40k car...GM adding a $125 catch can at the factory would be a drop in the bucket.

Answered above, but if the engineers were allowed to add, redesign, make better the camaro would soon cost what a lambo costs. The engineers are some of the best talent out there....but their hands are tied....and if they get a no-go on a .20 cent additional cost added a $125 item they would not have a chance. And GM already has developed some excellent cans (Maserati started using them in the late 50's to prevent oil caused detonation) that work unreal well......but never have gotten approval to add them. The 1LE has an optional clean side separator, but the clean side is ony 2-5% of the ingestion. Almost all comes from the dirty side.

So, any truely wanting facts and data, please ask in detail and lets not have the opinions involved, just those that care and want an education. Those that have no intentions of doing the "best" for their car and just want to muddy the waters, please let this be facts only.

[SC2150]

Forgot to add....GM (and every other auto manufacturer) reccomend you come in every 12-15k miles and spend $150-$450 on TB cleaning and an upper induction cleaning to help remove the deposits caused (restore MPG and power is how they word it) by the oil ingestion....lots cheaper to prevent it in the first place as every time you do an upper induction cleaning some of the hard carbon gets trapped between the piston and cylinder wall causing scouring...that adds up over time.

[SC2150]

Anyone with a LS3/L99, remove your TB and look inside your IM and see what is ingesting. This car came the next day after delivery from the dealer:


Picture of SC and housing using a RX catchcan from day one for 16,000 miles VS a intercooler after 14,000 miles w/no can:









Scouring on pistons from carbon breaking loose:


Oil ingestion causes buildup on the piston rings and ring lands preventing them from moving freely to properly seal...resulting in loss of power and excess oil consumption:



Actual pictures from GM TSB:




Intake from LLT on left w/can from new, right w/out:

[tonyko1]

Originally Posted by SC2150

Read these threads.....and yes, those not realizing what oil ingestion does can run their car for years and not be aware of the gradual degradation. And no, GM/Ford?Chrusler, etc. probably never will add the expense and another service procedure but the super cars (Maserati, Ferrari, etc.) as well as the Copo all have catchcans as it is performance and longevity for the goal.

Tons of real data, industry info, and automotive engineer data to read on the issues. If nothing else, the small cost for a GOOD functioning one....(most let as much through as they trap) the fuel savings alone pays for the can many times over (detonation from ANY oil ingestion no matter what type fuel delivery causes detonation and the knock sensors command the PCM to pull timing, thus less power is produced and less fuel economy) much less the long term effects. I have been buiulding and rebuilding race & performance engines as well as passenger cars for over 38 years.....if you saw the insides like I and many others do, you would never question the need to separate the oil before it is ingested.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216311

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68744

Been waiting for you to chime in. How about giving a disclaimer that your major interest in this is that you sell them.

Sorry, but you have been most arrogant and demeaning to my lack of knowledge.

However, I do know this: V8's don't need a catch-can, and the V6's, well, maybe.

Now, back to your modus operandi of sending out your pics of the uber-dirty piston rods and then the treatise.

Face it, your # 1 goal is to sell catch-cans. God bless you, but keep it "real".

Ugh.

[tonyko1]

Oh wow, you beat me to the punch. Really, that is what is inside all our brand new L99/LS3's.............................REALLY ?

Guess what, you may be called for a witness to a class-action suit, in which case, hold on to all your pics and information.

Thank you.