6*-9* Knock Retard on stock tune? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

jon6.0 · 07-02-2014, 11:27 AM

I've been data logging with my HP Tuners. I'm seeing 6*-9* of timing pulled for knock retard in 4th and 5th gear. I'm quite frankly scared to get on it now. I don't like running any KR in my tune. I never did datalog my C6 when it was stock, so I have no idea what that car was doing. It seems wrong to have that much timing pulled for KR.

In 1st, 2nd, and 3rd it was 23* of timing. In 4th it was 16* with the 6* pulled out of it.

DrkPhx · 07-02-2014, 12:57 PM

Very common on the LSA engine because of heat soak which kills hp. As you noted the stock tune has pretty high spark advance at WOT. I saw 25 degrees bone stock when I dyno'd the car. I was very surprised to see that much. KR is worse (at least on a M6 car) in the 4600-5200 rpm range right after the shift is completed because of the high spark values in that range. I've see the same issue on a CTS-V. Check out the spark values in the IAT table in the lower temp rows; spark is actually added to the total timing before hitting the 140 F range where it's subtracted.

jon6.0 · 07-02-2014, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

Very common on the LSA engine because of heat soak which kills hp. As you noted the stock tune has pretty high spark advance at WOT. I saw 25 degrees bone stock when I dyno'd the car. I was very surprised to see that much. KR is worse (at least on a M6 car) in the 4600-5200 rpm range right after the shift is completed because of the high spark values in that range. I've see the same issue on a CTS-V. Check out the spark values in the IAT table in the lower temp rows; spark is actually added to the total timing before hitting the 140 F range where it's subtracted.

Yeah I saw that. I logged IAT timing added on my C6 because that's how I added timing with the meth injection. I need to set my scanner up to read IAT2. I knew 91F couldn't be right on IAT, lol.

jessrayo · 07-02-2014, 08:43 PM

Your KR is all coming from IAT2 and while I don't like to think about giving up horsepower, I have become very used to with the supercharger.

Cruising around town, at idle, etc, the bypass valve of the supercharger is open and the supercharger makes no heat. Once you get on the gas and that bypass closes the heat is on... literally. The car cannot sustain lots of throttle without big increases in intake temps, this just has to be counterbalanced with timing retard. It is sort of the nature of the beast. I have done all I can to limit it on my car but I don't think it is possible to road race any ZL1 in the summer months for a 30 minute session without retarding some timing. If you do enough supercharger cooling modification you can run the 1/4 and the mile without any knock retard. Well, lets say 3/4 mile at least, after that you need to add ice.

jon6.0 · 07-02-2014, 10:05 PM

I'm trying to figure out how I read IAT2 and that PID isn't selectable from the list in HP Tuners. I have IAT. IAT2 isn't highlighted for me to select.

Thinking about water injection perhaps.

white ZL1 · 07-02-2014, 10:23 PM

Guys.....OP said knock retard and timing being pulled from high IAT2's does not show up as knock retard.

Here's two screenshots of the exact same datalog of a 1/4 mile pass.
First shows 4.5 degrees of Total KR and 0 degrees of IAT advance.

Second shows IAT2 temp at 145 degrees and -1.4 degrees of IAT2 advance...and NO Total KR.

IAT2 PID is right below IAT? Or if you're saying that you do see it, but can't select it....go connect to the car and see if you can select it while connected. If not, you might need to re-poll your ECM to pick them all up.

jon6.0 · 07-02-2014, 10:51 PM

How do I re-poll my ECM?

Botally Tone · 07-03-2014, 08:21 AM

Have you done any meth injection Jess?

jon6.0 · 07-03-2014, 08:46 AM

Yeah the IAT2 PID isn't highlighted for me. How do I get it to read? I also had a brain fart moment this morning. I read the stock tune and saved it into my laptop. Did I just void my warranty? I hope not...

hawk02 · 07-03-2014, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon6.0

Yeah the IAT2 PID isn't highlighted for me. How do I get it to read? I also had a brain fart moment this morning. I read the stock tune and saved it into my laptop. Did I just void my warranty? I hope not...

Not to worry, reading the file won't void your warranty.

jessrayo · 07-03-2014, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botally Tone

Have you done any meth injection Jess?

I don't inject meth.

jon6.0 · 07-03-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessrayo

I don't inject meth.

Best response ever.

jon6.0 · 07-03-2014, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawk02

Not to worry, reading the file won't void you warranty.

Good to know.

white ZL1 · 07-03-2014, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon6.0

How do I re-poll my ECM?

Documents > HP Tuners > VCM Scanner > Vehicles

Then delete the OS in question, plug the interface into the car, and it will re-poll.

07-02-2014, 11:27 AM	#1
jon6.0 Going for Plaid Drives: 2011 C6 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Phoenix Posts: 885	*6-9* Knock Retard on stock tune?** I've been data logging with my HP Tuners. I'm seeing 6-9 of timing pulled for knock retard in 4th and 5th gear. I'm quite frankly scared to get on it now. I don't like running any KR in my tune. I never did datalog my C6 when it was stock, so I have no idea what that car was doing. It seems wrong to have that much timing pulled for KR. In 1st, 2nd, and 3rd it was 23* of timing. In 4th it was 16* with the 6* pulled out of it. __________________ 2014 ZL1, manual trans, carbon hood insert, Rotofab, Pacesetter 1 7/8" headers, 1" drop BMR springs, stock pulleys, 91 octane tune, 545rwhp & 515rwtq Serviced and modded by Cordes Performance. 2011 C6, 750rwhp, forged LS3, ported LSA heads, Vortech Ti-trim, 227/243 115+4 Lunati cam, ported LS3 intake, Alky Control methanol, Pfadt sways/shocks/trans mounts, Pfadt tri-y headers(Sold 6/28/14)

07-02-2014, 08:43 PM	#4
jessrayo Speed Freak Drives: 2013 ZL1 Camaro, 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Ardmore, OK Posts: 2,637 View My Garage	Your KR is all coming from IAT2 and while I don't like to think about giving up horsepower, I have become very used to with the supercharger. Cruising around town, at idle, etc, the bypass valve of the supercharger is open and the supercharger makes no heat. Once you get on the gas and that bypass closes the heat is on... literally. The car cannot sustain lots of throttle without big increases in intake temps, this just has to be counterbalanced with timing retard. It is sort of the nature of the beast. I have done all I can to limit it on my car but I don't think it is possible to road race any ZL1 in the summer months for a 30 minute session without retarding some timing. If you do enough supercharger cooling modification you can run the 1/4 and the mile without any knock retard. Well, lets say 3/4 mile at least, after that you need to add ice. __________________ 2016 SS -AGP twin Borg Warner 7163 EFR's, LT4 mechanical pump, LT4 injectors, Walbro 255 low side, Castrol SRF. 734whp/759 tq 2013 ZL1 -ADM - 427 LSX 6 bolt, O-ringed block built by LME. Twin PT6466 turbos. RPM custom manual trans, RPS Quad carbon clutch, 9" Hendrix rear diff & axles. ADM/squash fuel system, Ron Davis radiator, Spal fans, AGP air to air, turbo plumbing. LPE oil cooler, rear bushing upgrade, roll bar...etc. rwhp 1400+... 212.5mph, best Texas mile to date.

07-02-2014, 10:05 PM	#5
jon6.0 Going for Plaid Drives: 2011 C6 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Phoenix Posts: 885	I'm trying to figure out how I read IAT2 and that PID isn't selectable from the list in HP Tuners. I have IAT. IAT2 isn't highlighted for me to select. Thinking about water injection perhaps. __________________ 2014 ZL1, manual trans, carbon hood insert, Rotofab, Pacesetter 1 7/8" headers, 1" drop BMR springs, stock pulleys, 91 octane tune, 545rwhp & 515rwtq Serviced and modded by Cordes Performance. 2011 C6, 750rwhp, forged LS3, ported LSA heads, Vortech Ti-trim, 227/243 115+4 Lunati cam, ported LS3 intake, Alky Control methanol, Pfadt sways/shocks/trans mounts, Pfadt tri-y headers(Sold 6/28/14)

07-02-2014, 10:51 PM	#7
jon6.0 Going for Plaid Drives: 2011 C6 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Phoenix Posts: 885	How do I re-poll my ECM? __________________ 2014 ZL1, manual trans, carbon hood insert, Rotofab, Pacesetter 1 7/8" headers, 1" drop BMR springs, stock pulleys, 91 octane tune, 545rwhp & 515rwtq Serviced and modded by Cordes Performance. 2011 C6, 750rwhp, forged LS3, ported LSA heads, Vortech Ti-trim, 227/243 115+4 Lunati cam, ported LS3 intake, Alky Control methanol, Pfadt sways/shocks/trans mounts, Pfadt tri-y headers(Sold 6/28/14)

07-03-2014, 08:46 AM	#9
jon6.0 Going for Plaid Drives: 2011 C6 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Phoenix Posts: 885	Yeah the IAT2 PID isn't highlighted for me. How do I get it to read? I also had a brain fart moment this morning. I read the stock tune and saved it into my laptop. Did I just void my warranty? I hope not... __________________ 2014 ZL1, manual trans, carbon hood insert, Rotofab, Pacesetter 1 7/8" headers, 1" drop BMR springs, stock pulleys, 91 octane tune, 545rwhp & 515rwtq Serviced and modded by Cordes Performance. 2011 C6, 750rwhp, forged LS3, ported LSA heads, Vortech Ti-trim, 227/243 115+4 Lunati cam, ported LS3 intake, Alky Control methanol, Pfadt sways/shocks/trans mounts, Pfadt tri-y headers(Sold 6/28/14)

07-02-2014, 12:57 PM	#2
DrkPhx Drives: 2013 Triple Black ZL1 / 2006 TB SS Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: MN Posts: 2,250	Very common on the LSA engine because of heat soak which kills hp. As you noted the stock tune has pretty high spark advance at WOT. I saw 25 degrees bone stock when I dyno'd the car. I was very surprised to see that much. KR is worse (at least on a M6 car) in the 4600-5200 rpm range right after the shift is completed because of the high spark values in that range. I've see the same issue on a CTS-V. Check out the spark values in the IAT table in the lower temp rows; spark is actually added to the total timing before hitting the 140 F range where it's subtracted.

07-02-2014, 10:23 PM	#6
white ZL1 Drives: none Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: DFW area Posts: 1,844	Guys.....OP said knock retard and timing being pulled from high IAT2's does not show up as knock retard. Here's two screenshots of the exact same datalog of a 1/4 mile pass. First shows 4.5 degrees of Total KR and 0 degrees of IAT advance. Second shows IAT2 temp at 145 degrees and -1.4 degrees of IAT2 advance...and NO Total KR. IAT2 PID is right below IAT? Or if you're saying that you do see it, but can't select it....go connect to the car and see if you can select it while connected. If not, you might need to re-poll your ECM to pick them all up.

07-03-2014, 08:21 AM	#8
Botally Tone Drives: 2014 Ashen Gray ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Houston Posts: 119 View My Garage	Have you done any meth injection Jess?