LSA LS9 ?

[JerseyMonte]

Whats the difference between the two except for the
forged internals?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JerseyMonte

Whats the difference between the two except for the
forged internals?

As posted in the other discussion, go to GMPP:

LS9

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...0199&engCat=ls

LSA

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...1708&engCat=ls

Titanium connecting rods is another big difference.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Number 3

As posted in the other discussion, go to GMPP:

LS9

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...0199&engCat=ls

LSA

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...1708&engCat=ls

Titanium connecting rods is another big difference.

wow, after reviewing the charts, I didn't know the LSA had such a week, mild cam. You would think GM would engineer something in the order of their hot cam or closer to that of the LS9 grind specs for the ZL1 LSA to easily bump the HP closer to 600. Well, now I gotta buy a new power manual and throw my 80's one in the trash...LOL

[besherman]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

wow, after reviewing the charts, I didn't know the LSA had such a week, mild cam. You would think GM would engineer something in the order of their hot cam or closer to that of the LS9 grind specs for the ZL1 LSA to easily bump the HP closer to 600. Well, now I gotta buy a new power manual and throw my 80's one in the trash...LOL

I suspect that the '12 GT500 will recieve a significant HP bump--just in time to take some of the wind out of the ZL1's sails.

I further suspect that the '13 ZL1 will respond with its own power increase.

Chevy will really need to up the ante to fend off the all new '14 Mustang (especially if there is a new '14 Shelby variant--which there may or may not be).

This is a long way of saying that I think we can expect stronger internals to be incorporated over the next couple of model years to keep up with any power increases.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by besherman

I suspect that the '12 GT500 will recieve a significant HP bump--just in time to take some of the wind out of the ZL1's sails.

I further suspect that the '13 ZL1 will respond with its own power increase.

Chevy will really need to up the ante to fend off the all new '14 Mustang (especially if there is a new '14 Shelby variant--which there may or may not be).

This is a long way of saying that I think we can expect stronger internals to be incorporated over the next couple of model years to keep up with any power increases.

...uh hemmm...Camaro board, LSA/LS9 post......

[besherman]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

...uh hemmm...Camaro board, LSA/LS9 post......

Disagree.

Of course, if you would like to add something substantive, rather than procedural, that would be nice.

[BrazenBeast]

Originally Posted by besherman

I suspect that the '12 GT500 will recieve a significant HP bump--just in time to take some of the wind out of the ZL1's sails.

I further suspect that the '13 ZL1 will respond with its own power increase.

Chevy will really need to up the ante to fend off the all new '14 Mustang (especially if there is a new '14 Shelby variant--which there may or may not be).

This is a long way of saying that I think we can expect stronger internals to be incorporated over the next couple of model years to keep up with any power increases.

Two things. I don't think the zl1 will have the same cam as the ctsv. The cadillac needed to be more refined than the zl1 will need to be. I also think gm will wait as long as possible to release hp #'s so not to give the ford a chance to adjust. They should be able to tweek the tune to mach anyminor increases by ford. The second point is that if there is any major hp increases by ford in the future all they would need to do is swap the LSA blower for the LS9 one.

[besherman]

Originally Posted by BrazenBeast

Two things. I don't think the zl1 will have the same cam as the ctsv. The cadillac needed to be more refined than the zl1 will need to be. I also think gm will wait asking as possible to release hp #'s so not to give the ford a chance to adjust. They should be able to tweek the tune to mach anyminor increases by ford. The second point is that if there is any major hp increases by ford in the future all they would need to do is swap the LSA blower for the LS9 one.

I think that using the LS9 supercharger would require most or all of the other changes that were made to the LS9.

Sad part is, if it were not for all of the governmental certifications required, it might have been feasible to offer a limited run of LS9-equipped ZL1s (in addition to the LSA version). But the cost involved in certifying another engine in the Camaro makes it uneconomic considering how few LS9s Chevy would likely be able to sell.

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by BrazenBeast

Two things. I don't think the zl1 will have the same cam as the ctsv. The cadillac needed to be more refined than the zl1 will need to be. I also think gm will wait asking as possible to release hp #'s so not to give the ford a chance to adjust. They should be able to tweek the tune to mach anyminor increases by ford. The second point is that if there is any major hp increases by ford in the future all they would need to do is swap the LSA blower for the LS9 one.

Dont hold your breath, Chevy is saving a TON of money by using the caddy engine as is. They wont do a cam swap nor a forged piston.
Only reason they used a cast piston in the LSA was that it makes for a quieter engine.
The ZL1 wont be a king for long which sucks, GT500 is all forged and ready to add HP and short notice. It will be hard for the ZL1 to make HP that easy because of the cast piston handicap.
-bobby

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by BrazenBeast

Two things. I don't think the zl1 will have the same cam as the ctsv. The cadillac needed to be more refined than the zl1 will need to be. I also think gm will wait asking as possible to release hp #'s so not to give the ford a chance to adjust. They should be able to tweek the tune to mach anyminor increases by ford. The second point is that if there is any major hp increases by ford in the future all they would need to do is swap the LSA blower for the LS9 one.

I agree. It does not give GM any advantage to release testing figures. By looking at the cam and SC specs there is room for safe HP growth in the LSA. Getting more air and fuel into the motor is the key. Cam grind and SC boost can easily be tweaked by Chevy. Tuned factory headers will work hand in glove with this effort. They know the limits of cylinder pressure and temperature the currently used hypereutectic pistons and rings can handle before failure. Currently it redlines at 6600 so there should not be any problem with the bottom end as long the max output is kept around that range IMHO. All I want too see is a little bit here, a tad bit there, and maybe a nip tuck done to the LSA to sweeten it up from the current CTS-V levels. Short work for Chevy....would not even crack a sweat.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by besherman

Disagree.

Of course, if you would like to add something substantive, rather than procedural, that would be nice.

Ouch...here we go..I am trying to keep the topic on point without that four letter word always having to pop up in the middle of Camaro discussion. The OP asked LSA/LS9?, don't be offended! I'm fine, your fine, we are all fine...somebody start singing the Barney song...LOL

[Number 3]

Just a question for you guys..................if Ford can add HP by just simply "adding HP", why haven't they already? If it were that easy they would have already in hopes of keeping up with the Z06. You see there would be great pride for Ford if they could actually do that.

If you want to be emissions and CAFE friendly ANNNND be reliable and durable, there is a bit more to it from an OEM standpoint. You can't just go, "oh the Camaro is HOT, give me 50 more HP".

Having forged internals doesn't allow Ford to just go there. It does allow the aftermarket to do some nice things, but they are still almost a liter down in displacement to the LSx.

And I am apparently the only one that thinks this way here on Camaro5, but it is as delivered vs. as delivered. I couldn't care less what you can do in the aftermarket because that is only limited by checkbooks and imagination. For me, it's comparing the engineered product that is refined and reliable from the showroom. That's how you compare OEMs. For enough money, you can simply put an LS9 in your Camaro and go up from there.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Just a question for you guys..................if Ford can add HP by just simply "adding HP", why haven't they already? If it were that easy they would have already in hopes of keeping up with the Z06. You see there would be great pride for Ford if they could actually do that.

If you want to be emissions and CAFE friendly ANNNND be reliable and durable, there is a bit more to it from an OEM standpoint. You can't just go, "oh the Camaro is HOT, give me 50 more HP".

Having forged internals doesn't allow Ford to just go there. It does allow the aftermarket to do some nice things, but they are still almost a liter down in displacement to the LSx.

And I am apparently the only one that thinks this way here on Camaro5, but it is as delivered vs. as delivered. I couldn't care less what you can do in the aftermarket because that is only limited by checkbooks and imagination. For me, it's comparing the engineered product that is refined and reliable from the showroom. That's how you compare OEMs. For enough money, you can simply put an LS9 in your Camaro and go up from there.

Number 3, I agree on your points. However, if you look at the LSA family, read the specs, and see whats available over the GM counter and in the production car line. I think they under engineered the LSA in HP and it can be bumped up some by Chevy. Have they already done it, who knows..are they thinking about it, probably did, will it happen, I seriously doubt it because they have been and currently are rolling down assembly lines and the more they make and change nothing, the more affordable (and profitable for GM) they become. Agreed it takes time to engineer and test and validate everything, so if it hasn't been done, don't expect it to happen at this point of the game with LSA. I am a apple to apple comparer and don't take into consideration what the after market can do for the product after it is produced from the factory. A wishful thinker I am...and also a realist. I will purchase the ZL1 even if the LSA specs are identical to this years model in the CTS-V. But I suspect there will be some improvement...being the wishful thinker I am.

[porcupinekiller]

I wonder if any vendors (such as Lingenfelter for example) will offer up warrantied LS9 conversions for the ZL1 Camaro's.
I'm sure it won't take long for someone to drop a LS9 into a ZL1.
Should be interesting.