Looks like im going to need to get a Z28 as well...

[backtotintops]

as someone who would track the car hard, I would swap in iron rotors after the first weekend. Can't do 4k for rotors. Zfatuated...do you think running iron would upset the abs programming or bias? Or could you compensate by changing pad aggressiveness to tune back in the bias?

I would also swap out the trofeos for a good performance tire...maybe pilot sport cups...that I can run in the winter and run goodyear slicks at the track. The pilots will become the track rains and streets. I have a good idea that Trofeos are not the best rain tire for the track or street anyway.

[Zfatuated]

Originally Posted by backtotintops

as someone who would track the car hard, I would swap in iron rotors after the first weekend. Can't do 4k for rotors. Zfatuated...do you think running iron would upset the abs programming or bias? Or could you compensate by changing pad aggressiveness to tune back in the bias?

I would also swap out the trofeos for a good performance tire...maybe pilot sport cups...that I can run in the winter and run goodyear slicks at the track. The pilots will become the track rains and streets. I have a good idea that Trofeos are not the best rain tire for the track or street anyway.

Overall, Trofeo's are light years better than MPSC. There's maybe 3 seconds difference in lap times on a given 2:00 minute track as well. MPSC is just as bad in the rain if not worse than Trofeo, MPSC have a nasty reputation in the wet. While the rubber compound of the MPSC won't crack in below 40f temps, it is still horrible for cold weather driving (no grip). And MPSC are just as $.

Furthermore...Trofeo tends to like more camber than other tires, so you really need to change alignment if you swap tires. Remember, a high-performance car and its suspension is tuned to a specific tire. That's just how it works, especially in a razor's edge car like the Z/28. People are used to just throwing any old tire/wheel on a car and not giving it a second thought. There will be a consequence to that on the new Z. The Z won't be a cold weather car unless you put dedicated snows on it.

Iron/ceramic has no effect on ABS or bias. Remember, coefficient of friction is not one of the variables between the rotors! And that is what would affect ABS/bias. Think about it. Ceramic rotors only work with *one* pad compound unlike irons which offer a variety of choices based on use/driving style. When you swap between iron/ceramic you must swap pads too.

My thought is- if you cannot accept the inherent compromises that come along with owning a track-specific car, then either make it your second car or don't buy it. I'm not saying that in an nasty tone of voice, only as an unemotional statement of fact/reality. If you strip the car of what makes it special, then that says you bought the wrong car. Celebrate its differences and accept it as a sniper-rifle and not a shotgun.

PS, I'm looking forward to popping a set of R6's on there myself :-)

[Col. Brain]

this car is going to suck in the snow. My buddy bought his C6 in the dead of winter and lets just say that was an awful 5 mile drive.

The splitter and the fact this thing sits about an inch or so lower with 305 tires = snow plow

Only thing imo that stinks are that the tires are not good down to 30 degrees. Today it is 40 and sunny and dry as can be.

The more I research the more i want. I can stomach new tires every year.

Anyone know what the actual weight savings of the radio is?

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by backtotintops

I would also swap out the trofeos for a good performance tire...maybe pilot sport cups...that I can run in the winter and run goodyear slicks at the track. The pilots will become the track rains and streets. I have a good idea that Trofeos are not the best rain tire for the track or street anyway.

This is one area where Tire Rack comparisons are pretty effective, as a guide. Along with input from fellow "racers" with experience of various tire brands on similar-sized/architecture vehicles.

Even the new BFG Rivals are considered worthy of attention, if dry auto-X and track duty AND a 200 wear-rating is a consideration. Danny Popp and others have enjoyed success in OUSCI qualifiers, this past summer/fall.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by Col. Brain

this car is going to suck in the snow. My buddy bought his C6 in the dead of winter and lets just say that was an awful 5 mile drive.

The splitter and the fact this thing sits about an inch or so lower with 305 tires = snow plow

Only thing imo that stinks are that the tires are not good down to 30 degrees. Today it is 40 and sunny and dry as can be.

The more I research the more i want. I can stomach new tires every year.

505 hp and RWD means "slow in the snow".

NO SUMMER ULTRA-PERFORMANCE TIRE should be entertained at temps below 40. The Trofeos are cast with less tread depth, besides. A 235/40 X 19 is the same diameter, and considerably narrower, for those diehard DDs.

Throw some Blizzaks or Alpins on ALL 4 CORNERS and you'll at least get out your driveway. And narrower tires work even better.

[Col. Brain]

yeah i understand that

but here close to Chicago - October is high 20s-low 30s at night and 50s-60s during the day.

When i go to work in the morning its about 30

I have no desire to drive the Z/28 in snow or wet conditions. I have my truck for that. But i have some kick ass country side roads that i can take with twists and turns that will make my commute one hell of a ride. Id just like to extend that ride

the 6000 mile life on the tire is well under what would be required for May-October driving the car daily and that is assuming no rain ever.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by Col. Brain

yeah i understand that

but here close to Chicago - October is high 20s-low 30s at night and 50s-60s during the day.

When i go to work in the morning its about 30

I have no desire to drive the Z/28 in snow or wet conditions. I have my truck for that. But i have some kick ass country side roads that i can take with twists and turns that will make my commute one hell of a ride. Id just like to extend that ride

the 6000 mile life on the tire is well under what would be required for May-October driving the car daily and that is assuming no rain ever.

Get a frost-friendly set of wheels and tires for late-fall/early-spring. Then STORE the car on those tires for winter. I'd hate to have a set of Trofeos, sitting all winter in the cold. Won't do them any good.

Just a thought.

[backtotintops]

I ran A6s on a t1 viper on the track and occasionally on the street for many years…they are DOT but just barely.

There has to be a DOT tire that could be run year round in the cold that has decent performance. This would be the rains at the track and the street tires in the off season or possibly year round. If the trofeos were off the rims, they would be sealed in bags in my warm basement. I guess I should look at tire rack. I have owned may fast cars and all were driven year round and the 930 in the snow a few times…it was a white knuckler….so I'm not looking for a snow tire at all…just all around street and rains at the track. NO actual snow driving.

SO if you change to steel you have to change pads and as we both know there are many pads…the last ones I used on a production car was Hawk Blues or Carbotechs…these were very aggressive and burned through rotors but stopped the car very well…so to clarify..it is your opinion that an overly aggressive pad with steel rotors will not upset the bias?

[Zfatuated]

Originally Posted by backtotintops

so to clarify..it is your opinion that an overly aggressive pad with steel rotors will not upset the bias?

My response was interpreting your question to be in regards to rotor swap (ceramic/iron) only. If you are running the same pad compound f/r, as you theoretically should be, regardless of rotor, then no, bias would not be affected. Obviously if you run one pad compound on F and a different one on R, then that would affect bias.

Now, a super aggressive pad could certainly affect ABS. Several high-performance cars suffer from the so-called "ice brake" especially with slicks and a rough surfaced track. Add a super aggressive pad to that mix and you freak out the ABS and induce ice-brake. Hopefully Mr. Steilow and team have calibrated the ABS with looser parameters and that's not an issue. I'd bet they did that early on.

On a car like the Z/28 the traction control and ABS are tuned and mapped to the tires, brakes, and suspension so if you start playing closet race-engineer (like many of us like to do), then you open the door to unwanted behaviors. I like to muck about and tweak stuff as much as the next guy, however I recognize up front that the Z/28 will be fully optimized for its mission in life, and have no desire to change anything.

"Knowledge is knowing how to do something, wisdom is know not to"

:-)