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Old 07-20-2011, 03:39 PM   #29
Squintz Palladoris
 
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Thanks for gettin back to me on that =)

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Old 07-21-2011, 09:57 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Pedders has had what we describe as Delrin for the street high desinty urethane sub-frame bushes for the 5th gen....
Pete,
I think that it is misleading to describe your high density polyurethane as Delrin. Delrin is an engineered material designed and patented by DuPont, similar to Nylon or Teflon. Check your notes and I'm sure you'll see that Delrin and high-density polyurethane are very different. Different chemical properties and different mechanical properties.

Straight from the Engineering Department at BMR Suspension:

Delrin® 150 Bar
Acetal (Delrin) provides high strength and stiffness coupled with enhanced dimensional stability and ease of machining. As a semi-crystalline material, Acetal is also characterized by a low coefficient of friction and good wear properties, especially in wet environments. Typical tensile strength is between 7500 psi and 9900 psi.

High-Density Polyurethane
An expanded polyurethane foam with a closed cell structure which imparts its maintenance free properties. Tensile strength can be as high as 6000 psi.

See what I mean. I'm not trying to bash you. I just think that technical accuracy is important.
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:39 PM   #31
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Let me check to see if our description is accurate.

Camaro Heavy Duty Rear Sub Frame Bushing Replacement -Fixes Rear end steering as the sub-frame twists within factory rubber mounts -Delrin like performance with urethane durability -High durometer urethane does transmit gear noise

Racers use Delrin bushes machined from stock. These are hard plastic suitable ONLY to a race car. They require frequent replacement. Pedders EP1201HD is a urethane of high dura that when captured by the Camaro sheet metal performs like Delrin, but has the durability of all Pedders urethane products.These bushes do transmit more road noise than the EP1200 inserts or the EP1201 full bushes. In the Pedders USA, LLC Camaro we barely notice a difference because the aggressive tires we run. The EP1201HD is not a typical Pedders bit. It is designed for ONLY the most dedicated enthusiasts. In the video, you will see that there is NO visible sub-frame movement, even with a 3 2 downshift with wide open throttle. Caution: Test driving any Pedderised vehicle can be dangerous. Pedderised vehicles have been known to induce suspension envy and sleepless nights filled with longing. Before test-driving any Pedderised vehicle, check with your banking and accounting professionals. Pedderised vehicles are known to induce credit card bills and reduced bank balances. There is no antidote. Only genuine Pedders can cure Suspension Envy.


Nope, we are good to go.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:20 PM   #32
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I find it very interesting that BMR says that their Delrin bushings will last forever but Pedders says they require frequent replacement. Come on guys, it can't be both.

Last edited by 13 ZL1; 07-21-2011 at 02:20 PM. Reason: correct typo
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:34 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Orange2SSRS View Post
I find it very interesting that BMR says that their Delrin bushings will last forever but Pedders says they require frequent replacement. Come on guys, it can't be both.
Delrin is hard and will abrade from road dust and debris. That is not in question. In a control arm that has a significant range of motion racers replace Delrin bushes as frequently as a single race weekend. A sub-frame bush does not rotate so the rotational wear will not be the issue. Where Pedders and BMR disagree is that BMR feels the lack of rotation will deliver long life in a Delrin sub-frame bush. Pedders takes a different view. We see contamination and vibration as significant in regard to wear. It is Pedders OPINION that Delrin belongs only in race cars based on noise, vibration harshness and durability. That doesn't make Pedders right. It makes Pedders, Pedders.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:40 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Orange2SSRS View Post
I find it very interesting that BMR says that their Delrin bushings will last forever but Pedders says they require frequent replacement. Come on guys, it can't be both.
The interesting part is that Pedders thinks Delrin is too hard for street use, but soft enough to get chewed-up by dust and debris.

Delrin is very hard and very durable. This is why it is frequently used on streetable suspension products. Many other big-name suspension companies design street-use products with Delrin bushings.

BMR uses Delrin bushings on many other applications. Every BMR Mustang A-arm since 2005 has Delrin bushings and it is very, very common to use these in daily-driven street cars. We have never had a Delrin bushing failure or a wear issue.

It is BMR's OPINION that all 5th Gen Camaros should have a solid rear cradle (like the Corvette). High density polyurethane is better than rubber, but not as rigid as Delrin.

One point that should be made: BMR Delrin rear cradle bushings are streetable when used with polyurethane differential bushings. BMR does not recommend using Delrin diff bushings on the street unless the driver is willing to accept road noise and a harsh ride.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:54 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR Fabrication View Post
Pete,
I think that it is misleading to describe your high density polyurethane as Delrin.
Disagree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR guy View Post
BMR Suspension
Delrin Rear Cradle Bushing Kit for 5th Gen Camaro (Race Version)
We agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
It is Pedders OPINION that Delrin belongs only in race cars based on noise, vibration harshness and durability. That doesn't make Pedders right. It makes Pedders, Pedders.
Can we agree to respectfully disagree?
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:18 AM   #36
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If I had enough cars I would run one of each brand, I think that you all make good stuff. I bought my car to play, and I know that I have to pay to play don't care, it's MY HOBBY! Thanks for all the good information. I'm sure everyone that reads this thread will find it useful.
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:33 PM   #37
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No matter what stance you have on derlin, it's safe to say that Pfadts solid bushings WON'T wear out.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axis View Post
No matter what stance you have on derlin, it's safe to say that Pfadts solid bushings WON'T wear out.
Absolutely! Folks tend to get nervous at the words solid bushings... but as mentioned previously in the thread the Corvette, which we have a lot of experience with, has had a solidly mounted subframe to chassis interface for years now.

You don't have to worry about ride quality degrading after a set of solid subframe mounts, even for a daily driver. There are plenty of other points of noise and vibration isolation between the driver and the road for a smooth and comfortable street ride, with all the performance benefits of a race inspired piece.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:21 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PfadtRacing View Post
Absolutely! Folks tend to get nervous at the words solid bushings... but as mentioned previously in the thread the Corvette, which we have a lot of experience with, has had a solidly mounted subframe to chassis interface for years now.

You don't have to worry about ride quality degrading after a set of solid subframe mounts, even for a daily driver. There are plenty of other points of noise and vibration isolation between the driver and the road for a smooth and comfortable street ride, with all the performance benefits of a race inspired piece.
What material are the Corvette bushings made from?
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:56 PM   #40
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I am in the market to upgrade the whole back end of my car after breaking axle with the stock motor.... I was reading this and thought the pedders and bmr cradle bushings might be a good alternative to the $690 pfadt bushings.. but after looking at the prices, I think for only $150+- more ill get pfadt.. cant ever go wrong with billet aluminum.. not that I think bmr or pedders are bad just thought they would be a lot less cost for plastic, delrin or poly

Last edited by krackerstien; 07-22-2011 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 07-23-2011, 10:01 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange2SSRS View Post
What material are the Corvette bushings made from?
I don't know for sure but from Pfadts statement, I think the Vette rear subframe is just solidly mounted. Meaning, they don't have a subframe bushing. Since GM put them on our car, installing solid subframe bushings would essentially do the same thing.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:34 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by tbss1 View Post
Dose anyone know if there is another company that makes solid cradle mounts? The Pfadt is very nice and pricey.
I am not sure what your intentions are for your car, but unless you plan on putting close to 600HP out of your car and or being a race or track car, SOLID bushings regardless of the manufacture and not necessary and will transfer a LOT of road noise and make for a not so long trip friendly ride.

Not that any of the "cons" of the HD bushings is that bad, but you should be made aware of the potential "cons".

.....goes to closet for nomex suite...
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