Big 3 CEO's (and UAW CEO) answering questions on CNBC (yesterday)

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

no...they aren't. They're just quoting them because it helps defend their side. A third party conducted a study to estimate what the impact would be if one of the big three ceased operations...That's why this is such a big deal. There are very REAL consequences should the Big Three fail. Which is what will happen should they declare chapter 11.

Attachment 11056


Was the economy already in a recession when that occurred? Since that's what we're facing here...things might turn out worse than what happened then. And our dipsh!t 'leaders' have a chance to pay 25 billion (and get it back) now or pay 160 billion out-of-pocket later...why is this such a tough decision for them to make?

Finally, this isn't a bunch of fraudulent banks we're talking about. This is the US auto Industry. Small startups cannot recreate the massive volume the three have right now overnight -- and they especially don't stand a chance against the likes of Toyota + friends. But we NEED that Industry.

And just a side note...calming down and sitting by watching the economy (and ultimately the country) fall apart is exactly what got us into this. I, for one, am not content to sit by and watch all of this implode.

Was the economy already in a recession when the S&Ls started to fall apart? Hello. There was a substantial slowdown in 1980-1982 which preceeded the beginning of the end of the S&Ls. There was also another in 1990-1991. I would argue that the collapse of a major portion of the banking industry is as dire if not worse than GM going bankrupt. We are talking about a run on the banks situation that could have easily escalated to something Great Depression like.

If GM would go out of business, do you think that Toyota, Honda, and others would not find a way to ramp production? Besides in the economy as it is right now, what direction is the demand going?

I applaud all those who want to get involved. Write your representatives. State your opinion. But arm yourselves with facts. Leave emotion and guesswork out of it.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by camaropete

If GM would go out of business, do you think that Toyota, Honda, and others would not find a way to ramp production? Besides in the economy as it is right now, what direction is the demand going?

And Toyota and friends making all our cars is okay with you? It makes me shudder. As though we need to shift a whole 'nother industry to Asia...

I also wouldn't doubt that the big three going under would tear Toyota down with them. You have to realize how intertwined they all are through their suppliers.

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

And Toyota and friends making all our cars is okay with you? It makes me shudder. As though we need to shift a whole 'nother industry to Asia...

I also wouldn't doubt that the big three going under would tear Toyota down with them. You have to realize how intertwined they all are through their suppliers.

I hear you, but your logic is flawed. The US used to make all the steel in the world almost exclusively. When the US steel industry collapsed, did the Japanese steel industry? Did the Chinese steel industry collapse? No. Did the demand for steel change? Did people stop using it? No. The other manufacturers kicked up production and took over the demand. The US steel industry slowly shrunk to match it's demand. Do I want to see all cars made by the Japanese and Chinese? No, of course not. But supply and demand and the prices they create are a natrual occurance. Trying to disrupt it artificially (tariffs, taxes, etc) is dangerous. What the US manufacturers should be working on right now is their plan to get more efficient and to be able to compete in the global marketplace. If they can't do that, no amount of money is going to save them. It will only prolong the inevitable. You want to make change? Write to the UAW and tell them what they are doing to collapse the US auto industry.

[Georgie]

didn't really read the thread but all i have to say is that the UAW has got to be reasonable if they are not. they can even have wages that are a bit better than what toyota/honda are paying with competitive benefits, but they got to get that cost under control or it is just going to keep sinking them (they may have already)

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

He probably already has....which is why they signed that contract in 2007...


These senators...especially that Shelby guy...are really ticking me off.
They threw 700 billion to the administration...but they're making a cataclysmic deal over 25 billion like it'll bankrupt the government.

They already gave 350 billion of the 750 to the banks, and they have decided to hold on to it, rather than providing consumer loans as the money was intended. Talk about an all-American cluster -.

[EllwynX]

Originally Posted by Scott@Bjorn3D

Looks like I will be keeping the Honda. I don't think there will be a Camaro made.

Originally Posted by camaropete

Oh, don't start already. Have some faith.

I'll admit, I'm somewhat worried as well. Have there been factual reports on what will happen if GM declares bankruptcy? Not speculation on possibilities, but real concrete info on what happens. Will car production cease immediately? What happens to the people who go in for a warranty covered repair? Would upcoming products be put on hold indefinitely (ie- Camaro, Volt)?

We can say 'have faith' until we're blue in the face, but I personally would like to know what WILL happen if they file for bankruptcy...

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by EllwynX

I'll admit, I'm somewhat worried as well. Have there been factual reports on what will happen if GM declares bankruptcy? Not speculation on possibilities, but real concrete info on what happens. Will car production cease immediately? What happens to the people who go in for a warranty covered repair? Would upcoming products be put on hold indefinitely (ie- Camaro, Volt)?

We can say 'have faith' until we're blue in the face, but I personally would like to know what WILL happen if they file for bankruptcy...

The one argument Rick Wagoner gave the Congress was a study by a non-auto industry firm that said that 80% of people would not even CONSIDER buying a car from a bankrupt car company.

One of the Senators pointed out that they are ALL guessing - educated guessing, but guessing.

[Nickdago]

Yea they just played it on FOX and they are saying that because of that paticular situation (execs flying in on private jets) that congress is going to ask for all of them to resign and are not going to give them all of the money they are asking for. Not looking good.

[DMX]

GM, Ford Executives Say No To $1 Salary In Exchange For Government Aid

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...7_FORTUNE5.htm

Wow. How hard would it be to say "Yes, I'll take $1 a year" if it would save their companies.

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by EllwynX

I'll admit, I'm somewhat worried as well. Have there been factual reports on what will happen if GM declares bankruptcy? Not speculation on possibilities, but real concrete info on what happens. Will car production cease immediately? What happens to the people who go in for a warranty covered repair? Would upcoming products be put on hold indefinitely (ie- Camaro, Volt)?

We can say 'have faith' until we're blue in the face, but I personally would like to know what WILL happen if they file for bankruptcy...

Well, that's a question to which no one knows the answer for sure, yet. But the bottom line is that they will not stop producing cars. Go read up on Chapter 11. It is a way to allow a company to restructure itself while protecting it from its debtors. If they start talking about Chapter 7, then we need to worry. They will still be making cars and trying to boost revenue that is for sure. They will need to make money and selling cars is the only way they can do that.

As for the Camaro and Volt, that's pure speculation. My personal opinion for the Camaro is that they have already sunk much of the cost for this vehicle and there is a lot of hype and potential around it to kill it at this point. But, I also don't have access to GM's financials to say whether or not continuing with production is the right thing to do or not.

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by DMX

GM, Ford Executives Say No To $1 Salary In Exchange For Government Aid

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...7_FORTUNE5.htm

Wow. How hard would it be to say "Yes, I'll take $1 a year" if it would save their companies.

That is just pure stupid. These guys deserve to go down. Un-freaking-believeable.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by EllwynX

I'll admit, I'm somewhat worried as well. Have there been factual reports on what will happen if GM declares bankruptcy? Not speculation on possibilities, but real concrete info on what happens. Will car production cease immediately? What happens to the people who go in for a warranty covered repair? Would upcoming products be put on hold indefinitely (ie- Camaro, Volt)?

We can say 'have faith' until we're blue in the face, but I personally would like to know what WILL happen if they file for bankruptcy...

Nobody knows what WILL happen. That's why "bankruptcy is not an option." There are many things that could happen, ranging from a full recovery to an absolute annihilation.

Supposedly, (and this is according to Big Three), if GM files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, there will not be enough money available to restructure to the extent the 'committee' seems to want (on the order of hundreds of billions). None of this money would be paid back, because they're not loans. They are out of pocket spending to reorganize a company and set it on its feet again. On top of that, recent studies suggest that 80% of people wouldn't even consider buying a car from a bankrupt company, essentially killing their sales and any chance at coming back. They will enter the proceedings and promptly be forced into a Chapter 7 liquidation process because there would be no hope of recovery....under Chapter 7, GM would get divided apart like a turkey on Thanksgiving, and all the technologies, patents, brands, plants, buildings will be sold off to the highest bidder...GM will cease to exist.

Then the suppliers will go under. Delphi will die, American Axle will most likely tank, and many, many, many others whose biggest customer (or one of the biggest) is GM. Upon this happening, Ford and Chrysler will be choked off from parts, and within short-order, they too will declare bankruptcy, be chopped up and sold off -- ending the American automotive Industry. UNLESS some private Investment company (who most likely knows nothing about the auto business) buys up, say, Chevrolet and all its assets. Then Chevrolet will continue on without the burden of the rest of GM...but that's unlikely (so we're being told).

Now...you've got 3 million people out of work within the first year, and 2 million more being laid off or fired the next year. The vast majority of these people will probably file for unemployment...and siphon even more money out of the government. On top of not working, these people won't be spending on anything other than bare necessities...further hurting out economy. Possibly to the point of a full-scale depression. But that may be overblown.

(^) That is a very real risk with Chapter 11, and that's why they don't want to do it. Just like jumping off a cliff with no safety harness...it's an option. But why would you do it?

I'm afraid I don't have any links or articles...I've pulled that from various sources I've read and listened to over the past week or so.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DMX

GM, Ford Executives Say No To $1 Salary In Exchange For Government Aid

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...7_FORTUNE5.htm

Wow. How hard would it be to say "Yes, I'll take $1 a year" if it would save their companies.

Where's that slap-head smilie....

#1; why is congress acting like this is a game?

#2; why wouldn't they just say YES!?

[Inspector 17]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Where's that slap-head smilie....

#1; why is congress acting like this is a game?

#2; why wouldn't they just say YES!?

Any of these would work: