Renewing Supercharger Discussion

[H-E]

Originally Posted by Missile Man

I have distilled but the instructions calls for DI.

To the FI members: What do you use for the coolant, mixture?

In AZ you may never need it but just enough so it doesn't freeze.Distilled water from Walmart is fine..Water with water wetter will help with iats but you need to add something the times it may freeze.

[2012LS3VERT]

Originally Posted by Missile Man

I have distilled but the instructions calls for DI.

To the FI members: What do you use for the coolant, mixture?

DI is what they recommend because they assume you are going to run 50/50 coolant water mix, but I just run filtered tap water and a bottle of water wetter. It provides enough corrosion resistance for me, I will drain some and add some antifreeze when temps get around freezing. In AZ you may only need a slight amount depending on when you get to wintertime. It's been close to 100 here, and I get better IATs with the straight water/water wetter mixture.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Missile Man

Received the Maggie last night, will inventory today. Still waiting on the RDS spacers.

The wife knows now............ she's cool with it.

I don't know if you are still looking for input on the RDS spacers but I did a little research and decided not to use them. They insulate the blower from the rest of the engine. If your supercharger is not making boost this is good, intake temps are cooler. If your supercharger is making boost a lot, like when road racing, the supercharger is the hottest item in the engine bay and it will actually raise your oil and engine water temps. If you road race the car and put in the spacer, the spacer actually traps heat in the supercharger that would normally dissipate into the engine.

All of RDS testing that shows lower intake temps are when the supercharger is not running boost. Cruising on the interstate at no boost conditions, idle start-up on a hot engine, maybe even drag passes on low supercharger boost settings.

If most of your driving is in non-boost conditions and when you get on the car you only do it for very short periods, and then get out of it and let it cool, the spacers will keep your supercharger cooler when it is not in use. If you ever run the car in road racing type circumstances or try to push it for an extended period of time the spacer will actually make the supercharger hotter because it is hotter than the rest of the engine when it is actually making boost. If you ever plan on road racing don't use them.

[old motorhead]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

I don't know if you are still looking for input on the RDS spacers but I did a little research and decided not to use them. They insulate the blower from the rest of the engine. If your supercharger is not making boost this is good, intake temps are cooler. If your supercharger is making boost a lot, like when road racing, the supercharger is the hottest item in the engine bay and it will actually raise your oil and engine water temps. If you road race the car and put in the spacer, the spacer actually traps heat in the supercharger that would normally dissipate into the engine.

All of RDS testing that shows lower intake temps are when the supercharger is not running boost. Cruising on the interstate at no boost conditions, idle start-up on a hot engine, maybe even drag passes on low supercharger boost settings.

If most of your driving is in non-boost conditions and when you get on the car you only do it for very short periods, and then get out of it and let it cool, the spacers will keep your supercharger cooler when it is not in use. If you ever run the car in road racing type circumstances or try to push it for an extended period of time the spacer will actually make the supercharger hotter because it is hotter than the rest of the engine when it is actually making boost. If you ever plan on road racing don't use them.

I have no dog in this fight, but I would think that the blower would nearly always be cooler than the motor. With the intercooler system, it has below engine temp coolant circulating through it. Yes, when compressing air, it heats up. The intercooler is there to counteract that though. The intercooler coolant is being cooled by ambient air all the while. I would think any insulation that the blower sees from the motor is all good. As soon as the blower sees non boosted air, the intake air also cools it too. It gets cooled from two directions. That's my simplistic view....but maybe I'm missing something...

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by old motorhead

I have no dog in this fight, but I would think that the blower would nearly always be cooler than the motor. With the intercooler system, it has below engine temp coolant circulating through it. Yes, when compressing air, it heats up. The intercooler is there to counteract that though. The intercooler coolant is being cooled by ambient air all the while. I would think any insulation that the blower sees from the motor is all good. As soon as the blower sees non boosted air, the intake air also cools it too. It gets cooled from two directions. That's my simplistic view....but maybe I'm missing something...

It is all about how much you stay in boost. And to a certain degree it has a lot to do with the pulleys you run on the supercharger for the overall boost ratio. If you make more than 10 pounds of boost the supercharger is instantly getting hotter than the rest of the motor. Even after passing through the intercooler which in theory should have ambient water coursing through it, the intake temps are going above 200 sometimes, that means those supercharger rotors are getting well over 300 degrees.

I went out to the Texas mile and most of the cars running close to 200mph are running superchargers, pretty much all them have huge upgraded supercharger cooling systems and pumps. I have a 4 gallon reservoir and SMP pump. A universal problem in achieving more speed is always excessive IATs because the supercharger gets so hot the air going through it cannot be efficiently cooled. That is what happens when you stay in boost for about 20-25 continuous seconds.

In road racing you get into boost down the straight and get out to brake for the corner, after the corner back into boost until it is time to brake again. The superchargers universally get so hot that supercharger cooling system does not effectively keep up without dramatically reducing timing and power. The heat is actually being transferred from the 300-400 degree supercharger back into the engine block. The actual temps of the supercharger while in boost are always higher than the air that passed through cooling bricks and the only temp you can read is IAT after it passed the cooling bricks in the bottom of the supercharger. And when you are making boost that is always higher than the engine block temps. I spent many hours road racing my car and boiling out supercharger coolant before I got things to stay in balance. The engine oil and water temps will say rock steady until the supercharger gets really hot and then they transfer heat to the rest of the engine and the oil and water temps start to creep up. Many ZL1 owners who have road raced their cars on track days have experienced this. If you run the supercharger in boost, it is hotter than the rest of your motor, if you insulate it from the motor, it will not be able to conduct heat back into the superior engine cooling system with much larger water jackets. The car will not make as much power because intake temps will get even hotter when the car stays in boost.

Let me even put it into another context, the intercooler in the supercharger is designed to cool the air that has already passed through the supercharger. It does not directly cool the supercharger itself. The only cooling the supercharger has in itself is the cool air coming into it and the conduction with the engine. If the air coming out of the supercharger rotors is more than 300 degrees before it hits the intercooler then that supercharger is at least 300 degrees. That is hotter than the temp of your engine block and your supercharger would appreciate a little conduction with that cooler engine block to help keep it cool.

[Ray@RDS]

Without any insulation it all becomes one big heat sink. Adding phenolic has proven to not only reduce the actual blower temps, and by simply elevating the intercooler from its current location increases tq and hp. Do a simple touch test after one of your boosted runs and count how many seconds you can hold you hand on the blower without one then simply ask any One of my customers using one and repeat that same test. You may be surprised
And if any piece other than a header primary tube see's 300 degrees on the outside of an engine it may have an entirely different problem.

There is a particular Camaro race team that makes a few well known parts for just about every hot rodder out here running close to 8.0 sporting an RDS blower plate...
FYI..

[Missile Man]

The water wetter with some distilled sounds like a winner, thanks for the info.

I already have the RDS so I plan on installing. Before purchasing the RDS there were many positive post about the product. I'll install a temp gauge to the Maggie later on to monitor the temperature.

[Missile Man]

Off to a slow start. Tuned the ECM/TCM back to stock (Vector Motor Sports tune) and yes disconnected the battery. I don't remember if the file names for the stock tunes were saved as the actual file names that came with the Camaro, don't know if that would cause issues? Or going from one tuner to another?

Hooked up the SCT (3416M), got to "Begin Programming" and never gets past doing the "Unlock ECU - Waiting for security timeout". Eventually ends with error codes 1019 Unlock of ECM failed and 1017 Upload stock program failed.

The "Device Info" section of the SCT shows "Device Unmarried".

Any ideas?

[fldrummer]

Originally Posted by Missile Man

Off to a slow start. Tuned the ECM/TCM back to stock (Vector Motor Sports tune) and yes disconnected the battery. I don't remember if the file names for the stock tunes were saved as the actual file names that came with the Camaro, don't know if that would cause issues? Or going from one tuner to another?

Hooked up the SCT (3416M), got to "Begin Programming" and never gets past doing the "Unlock ECU - Waiting for security timeout". Eventually ends with error codes 1019 Unlock of ECM failed and 1017 Upload stock program failed.

The "Device Info" section of the SCT shows "Device Unmarried".

Any ideas?

I used to have a Vector tune. You need to call them to get a flash that will unlock the tune. I assume you have their laptop software and cable? You will likely need that. 'Not so sure it can be done with the SCT, but I could be wrong (?).

[Missile Man]

Originally Posted by fldrummer

I used to have a Vector tune. You need to call them to get a flash that will unlock the tune. I assume you have their laptop software and cable? You will likely need that. 'Not so sure it can be done with the SCT, but I could be wrong (?).

Worth a try, thanks.

[Missile Man]

We'll I've talked with Vector Motorsports, RDP, Magnuson and now holding on the phone (20 min) for SCT support.
Vector Motorsports and DynoSteve with RDP got back to me very quickly, very cool. It's very frustrating to spend that good amount of coin to have this happen. Hopefully SCT will have an answer.

Update: Josh at SCT said I needed to go get a stock tune and that the Vector Motorsports tune (stock) is still locking out the ECM. Looks like you could be right "fldrummer". I really hope Vector has a tune he can send me to fix this issue other wise it's to the dealer and more $$$.

[Missile Man]

I have the intake manifold off and noticed a greenish sludge/slime inside the intake ports. Real tacky, reminds me of gorilla snot. What the heck is it? I don't think this could be good for the engine. There was oil in the throttle body.

[2012LS3VERT]

Moisture in the oil. Common. Catch can usually gets most of that.

[Unreal]

Just oil build up getting cooked. That is why not places suggest catch cans so it doesn't make it into the motor.