My thoughts of the 2014 Camaro and the Z/28......

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21

=Angrybird 12;636900You do realize the 1970 1/2 Camaro was praised for its European styling...


NOT! maybe in your little bird world! We didn't get to Euro styling until the mid 80's when we were bombarded with cheap imports. GM's designers decided to join them rather than try to keep our original American designs. They thought that is what people wanted. It ruined the look of most American cars for a long time. I know...I was there dude.

You don't have to take my word for it take GM's

From the GM heritage center website.
http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/...Camaro_History
SECOND GENERATION 1970-1981

1970

The second generation Camaro was introduced to the public in the spring of 1970 -- along with a slightly revised corvette. While it shared the “semi-unitized” body concept with the first generation car, virtually every part was new. The new body had a definite European influence. Front end treatments were distinctively different based on whether or not the Rally Sport package was ordered. Because SCCA Trans-Am rules changed and allowed “destroking” larger engines, the new Camaro Z-28 came with a 350ci engine developing 360 horsepower. The ultimate SS Camaro offered an optional 396ci engine with 375hp. The convertible was dropped for the second generation.
Due to a short model year, only 124,901 1970 Camaros were produced.

[SilverSurfer21]

[QUOTE=Angrybird 12;6369611]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21

From the GM heritage center website.
http://history.gmheritagecenter.com/...Camaro_History
SECOND GENERATION 1970-1981

1970

The second generation Camaro was introduced to the public in the spring of 1970 -- along with a slightly revised corvette. While it shared the “semi-unitized” body concept with the first generation car, virtually every part was new. The new body had a definite European influence. Front end treatments were distinctively different based on whether or not the Rally Sport package was ordered. Because SCCA Trans-Am rules changed and allowed “destroking” larger engines, the new Camaro Z-28 came with a 350ci engine developing 360 horsepower. The ultimate SS Camaro offered an optional 396ci engine with 375hp. The convertible was dropped for the second generation.
Due to a short model year, only 124,901 1970 Camaros were produced.

LOL Please tell me...what car (European) did they get the design Qs from??? Who ever wrote that article is full of you know what. I like how they are rewriting history to make a story. (not saying you did) You are an innocent bystander in this and honestly came across this article and you think it is gospel. The guy that wrote this was a young kid back then and his dad had a Chevy dealership. That makes him an expert!??? Ha Ha Ha. I was an engineer for GM and personally know the history of the Camaro. It was my first Factory car I ever bought. 1973! It was NOT influenced at all from Europe. This guy is hilarious! The article is not at all factual however.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you read it. I am not knocking you. You have to put things into prospective and look who is writing the articles that you quote though.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21

LOL Please tell me...what car (European) did they get the design Qs from??? Who ever wrote that article is full of you know what. I like how they are rewriting history to make a story. (not saying you did) You are an innocent bystander in this and honestly came across this article and you think it is gospel. The guy that wrote this was a young kid back then and his dad had a Chevy dealership. That makes him an expert!??? Ha Ha Ha. I was an engineer for GM and personally know the history of the Camaro. It was my first Factory car I ever bought. 1973! It was NOT influenced at all from Europe. This guy is hilarious! The article is not at all factual however.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt because you read it. I am not knocking you. You have to put things into prospective and look who is writing the articles that you quote though.

Wow I find something I have known since 1970 to be true and you want to even discount what GM themselves say....

Try this...
http://www.che265.com/camaro2nd.html
Introduced to market in February 1970, the second-generation Chevrolet Camaro would be in production 12 years. When the second-generation Camaro finally did appear, it made a tremendous splash. It was one of the most radical-looking new designs the industry had seen since the excesses of 1959. Unlike the Mustang, whose successive revamps from 1964 to 1973 represented a steady evolution of the original concept, the new Camaro was an almost complete stylistic break with its predecessor. The first Camaro, as we have previously seen, evolved from the "Super Nova" concept car of the early sixties. It essentially married the stylistic philosophy of the second-generation Chevrolet Corvair (1965-1969) with the short-deck, long-hood proportions popularized by the Mustang; park a '67 Camaro next to a post-'65 Corvair, and the family resemblance of their basic body shapes is readily apparent. The new Camaro looked more like something from Italy than Detroit. It featured a curvaceous nose and gaping grille that recalled early-sixties Ferrari or Maserati GT cars, particularly on Rally Sport models, which had no bumper ahead of their grille openings.

And this
http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/camaro/history.html

Second Generation (1970½-1981)

Though it didn't make it to market until February of 1970, the second-generation 1970½ Camaro would be in production 12 years. The second-generation Camaro's styling was inspired by Ferrari and was also bigger, heavier and no longer available as a convertible. And as the 1970s progressed, it would grow less powerful, succumbing to the pressures of tightening emissions regulations and a fuel crisis.

[SecondZ28]

Just read your long response. Yes, the '14 Z/28 was not exactly what I was expecting, but that's not to say that is a bad thing. I love what you and your team have created; and continue to impress in this day with so many regulations. You've gone back to the roots of the Camaro and have let us have modern day versions of them. It's truly amazing what you have accomplished thus far.

Keep up the great work!

[Cheveey57]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Wow I find something I have known since 1970 to be true and you want to even discount what GM themselves say....

Try this...
http://www.che265.com/camaro2nd.html
The new Camaro looked more like something from Italy than Detroit. It featured a curvaceous nose and gaping grille that recalled early-sixties Ferrari or Maserati GT cars, particularly on Rally Sport models, which had no bumper ahead of their grille openings.[/B]

Actually both of these articles you offer as proof sound like opinion. Kind like me saying the new tail lights suck. If it were factual joe designer would say I designed the Camaro after ...Blah,blah,blah.
Just one more writers opinion.

[HelloWorld]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21

LOL Please tell me...what car (European) did they get the design Qs from??? Who ever wrote that article is full of you know what.

Have you ever seen a 50's to 60's Italian or British sports car? It should be fairly obvious really.

[AnthonyR]

That was all well put, and I loooooove camaro's, but let me get this straight. Your going to give us a stripped down SHELL, with a big motor thats STILL 80HP less than a ZL1 and still charge us 50-60K for it? HUH????? (WITH A CONFUSED LOOK) Compared to everything you get with the ZL1 (580HP Supercharged engine, HUD,all the luxuries including a RADIO!!!!!!!!) it just doesn't make sense to pay that much for the Z/28 badge!!

Is it just me or does anything over 40K seem ridiculous?

[el ess A]

SilverSurfer, it seems you need to pull your head out of your butt and breathe. Relax is a word in the dictionary. In your world, I truly believe you would somehow find fault finding a perfect 10 at your favorite hangout that's holding the winning lotto ticket and wanting to go home with you. Nothing is seemingly going to make you happy, and I think it has something FAR deeper than the taillights that you don't care for. Your attitude comes across as if you were the engineer for the 1st gen Aztec. You seem to leave the room with a lot of people not holding most of what you say with much regard. It's rather not what you say, but the way you come across. Advice, just lighten up, dude.

Tail lamps are NOT going to slow the sales of the Camaro. Anyone who is so turned off by one feature of the car really was just looking for an excuse not to buy one anyway. I do feel the sales will start to slow with the anticipation of the 6th gen. That's how it always is. It won't by because of the tail lights.

And whoever said that you can't change your mind after seeing a specimen in person than in the print needs their head examined. When I saw pictures of the first 3rd gen (a straight on side shot), I was saddened by the way the hatch glass looked. But when I saw a demo at the dealership, I placed my order that day for an 82 Z28. And I initially thought the 4th gen "exposed" wipers looked stupid when I first saw them, but didn't make it a deal breaker. Then the "catfish" look of the 98-02...excuse me? But now, nearly every car has them. Talk about forward thinking. And I ended up owning 3 of the 4th gen cars, a 93 Z28 and two 2002 Camaros (Z28 and SS). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I still have no use for the 2010-13 SS mail slot, but hey, it's there, but again, that one little "flaw" didn't stop me from buying a 5th gen.

So if y'all will quit flogging this thread and trying to show how big each other's d!ks are, maybe, just MAYBE, we can all get back to constructively evaluating the hits/misses with the 14 model year Camaro.

[SilverSurfer21]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Ok I had a book that had direct quotes from the Chief Designer Henry Haga
from the book "Camaro an American Icon" by Gary Witzenburg.
on page 51 this is what is written about the design inspiration of the second gen Camaro. there are other references throughout the discussion of the design of the 70 Camaro that mention the Jaguar influence but I don't want to take up any more space in this thread.. you can get the book at Barns & Nobel and read the entire thing, It's really good...
I hope you can read this scanned page...

You gave us two OPINION articles that said the car looked like it came from Italy and was inspired from Ferrari and now one that says it was from Jaguar and England. Which is it??? I might believe the front of a Jag. So I will stand corrected.

[Angrybird 12]

Sorry for hijacking the thread... I don't think they would believe me if I said the sky was blue and the grass is green.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer21

You gave us two OPINION articles that said the car looked like it came from Italy and was inspired from Ferrari and now one that says it was from Jaguar and England. Which is it??? I might believe the front of a Jag. So I will stand corrected.

You can believe whatever you want I am done with you now...

[CWI]

Everyone has an opinion, they are entitled to their own opinion. Many people have intentionally changed the appearance of their Camaros, again, their entitled to artistic license. Myself, I have not changed the outward appearance of my 2010. Even though I will be soon installing a new front bumper cover, I am keeping it OEM. When I show up at an event I want people to recognize my car for what it is, not for what they want others to think it is.

As for the refresh, I am not an instant fan of the tail lights and untill I see one in person, I have no comment of the front. It is what it is and as Scott said, they did what they perceived to be what the most people wanted. Can't blame them for that. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Buy a used Camaro or wait a couple years for the next generation. I'm sure there will plenty that love the next gen and plenty that hate it. that's life.
Most people thought Edsil Ford was crazy, maybe he was, but I kinda liked his ugly car.

[nikos30]

im starting to like the new look... I think it would look better in person

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by nikos30

im starting to like the new look... I think it would look better in person

Remember you can't change your mind......it's impossible