[FarmerFran]

Dodge has been doing it for years now, the Hemi commercials. John Reep. The Magnum commercials.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You don’t recall GM claiming 10 years ago that they were no longer about sales but PROFIT? You may have missed that and GM remains HUGELY profitable. So for GM? Your metric isn’t what they are using. And it’s why we don’t see TV commercials for the Camaro. They want more profit not more sales. And putting bigger discounts on Camaro or paying for TV commercials might lead to more sales just not more profit. But most (see above) don’t get that.

The reason the Camaro went bye bye last time.

[ZL1plumbin]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

FWIW, I own a Tesla Model 3 and a Camaro ZL1. They entertain in very different ways. The Model 3 makes for a great daily driver. Putting the much lower operation costs aside, EVs tend to be easier to drive in traffic as you basically use one pedal in stop and go, you get brake hold while at a light and they are quiet and very smooth. They have instant effortless power, which is probably the most noticeable difference when folks first drive one. This makes sense as the torque curve for an EV is basically a square wave. The tech is great, Tesla Autopilot reduces driving fatigue on highway trips, voice AI, built-in music streaming and satellite maps, over the air updates, etc.

That said, the ZL1 is the car I prefer when I actually want to drive. The exhaust note, rise and fall of the RPM as it rips through the shifts, much sharper suspension, Recaro seats that hold you in place and aggressive styling make the Camaro driving experience something special and put a smile on my face every time I drive it. You don't see features like magnetic ride suspension, drive modes, LSD, sporty interiors, HUD, etc. in a Tesla, at least not yet.

If Dodge puts a couple powerful EV drive units and a big battery they will easily have 1000hp cars putting down unbelievable numbers but will this be enough? I am not so sure 0-60mph times will really matter all that much in an EV world. They all take off like a bat out of hell with instant torque like that. I think it will get more interesting when they start putting an electric motor on each wheel to create improved driving dynamics. One thing is for sure, doing burnouts with no exhaust noise just seems weird. Tesla won't even let you spin the tires, no nanny control, except for Track Mode, which is only available on the P models and is not practical to keep on all the time. Maybe Dodge will find a way to add some character and fun to EVs?

I think if most performance car guys drove an EV like the Rimac nevara it would really change their minds. Pretty sure it does everything you mentioned and more. It’s the most trick ev hyper car in existence. The 30yr old owner is now one of the main guys or the Main guy at Porsche too because of his tech.
Prob so far with ev cars is besides the rimac they’re all just quick in a straight line like teslas. Which are garbage cars imo. Build quality is horrible from the ones I’ve been in.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by ZL1plumbin

I think if most performance car guys drove an EV like the Rimac nevara it would really change their minds. Pretty sure it does everything you mentioned and more. It’s the most trick ev hyper car in existence. The 30yr old owner is now one of the main guys or the Main guy at Porsche too because of his tech.
Prob so far with ev cars is besides the rimac they’re all just quick in a straight line like teslas. Which are garbage cars imo. Build quality is horrible from the ones I’ve been in.

I heard Porsche Taycan has that affect when driven on track. It is the first EV that has caused some folks to pause and be optimistic about the future of performance EVs. In my experience, you are trading terrific noise for instant torque curve and throttle response.

[S8ER01Z]

Originally Posted by jamala00

I really do love my Tahoe and I also really love the Camaro. Maybe I should sell them both and just get a Durango Hellcat... Still have the "SUV", but with even more power then the Camaro. lol... I can't imagine how that thing can handle decently. You go ripping around a corner in that vehicle you'll most likely roll it over.

Honestly it handles just fine ripping into corners…. Everything has its limits but for a big heavy SUV the Hellcat is really surprising in the handling department.

[ZL1plumbin]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I heard Porsche Taycan has that affect when driven on track. It is the first EV that has caused some folks to pause and be optimistic about the future of performance EVs. In my experience, you are trading terrific noise for instant torque curve and throttle response.

The crazy part is from what ive seen online the RIMAC is in a whole other world compared to the Porsche or Tesla. Hypercar status.
In a straight line the plaid was the king for a week or so until the rimac showed up. Unless something else has happened in a few weeks. 8.58 1/4 mile. AND its not just a grocery getter Tesla with crap build quality. (From what I can see in vids. )
https://youtu.be/GUB1z5wr5p8

https://youtu.be/tJKLJltnPQA

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by ZL1plumbin

The crazy part is from what ive seen online the RIMAC is in a whole other world compared to the Porsche or Tesla. Hypercar status.
In a straight line the plaid was the king for a week or so until the rimac showed up. Unless something else has happened in a few weeks. 8.58 1/4 mile. AND its not just a grocery getter Tesla with crap build quality. (From what I can see in vids. )
https://youtu.be/GUB1z5wr5p8

https://youtu.be/tJKLJltnPQA

True, but I must point out the supermassive price difference between a Plaid and a Rimac car, so the comparison is unfair. (And I'm not a Tesla fan, to put it mildly.)

[ZL1plumbin]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

True, but I must point out the supermassive price difference between a Plaid and a Rimac car, so the comparison is unfair. (And I'm not a Tesla fan, to put it mildly.)

I’m with ya. Even the taycan is in a different world as far
As perceived “quality” inside and out compared to the Tesla and that’s in the same ballpark.

I guess with the rimac I was referring to a true sports car vs a 4 door sedan that just goes fast. It’s looking like the corvette might be the first “affordable” bad ass EV sports car. Idk. I’m not totally anti EV but at 40 I still grew up near Detroit in the V8 era. I love the whole experience ICE sports cars bring to the table. BUT I’m willing to embrace the right EV sports car down the road. I’d really welcome not dealing with the power train in ICE cars as far as maint, breaking etc.

I’m primarily more of a “we need a better/faster charging infrastructure country wide “ type of guy lol

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by ZL1plumbin

I’m with ya. Even the taycan is in a different world as far
As perceived “quality” inside and out compared to the Tesla and that’s in the same ballpark.

I guess with the rimac I was referring to a true sports car vs a 4 door sedan that just goes fast. It’s looking like the corvette might be the first “affordable” bad ass EV sports car. Idk. I’m not totally anti EV but at 40 I still grew up near Detroit in the V8 era. I love the whole experience ICE sports cars bring to the table. BUT I’m willing to embrace the right EV sports car down the road. I’d really welcome not dealing with the power train in ICE cars as far as maint, breaking etc.

I’m primarily more of a “we need a better/faster charging infrastructure country wide “ type of guy lol

I hear you, too, brother Politics aside, my main technical qualm with EVs is that it isn't just the powertrain that changes from gas vehicles. Electric cars either look like a turdpile (e.g. the Leaf or the Bolt), or they're bait and switch with zero driver engagement and full mothership control (Tesla et al), or they are prohibitively expensive (Taycan, Rimac etc., these are basically high end Porsche/Bugatti/Koenigsegg counterparts).

The charging situation is not such a major deal IMO, one can always charge a grocery getter EV overnight... now, an EV sports car? Dunno, watch Jason Cammisa in this to see an eloquent, cinematic quality rendering of what I also think: https://youtu.be/j7YqdGt19tw

[sicpuppy]

I've had a hellcat( I didn't track it) 2 mustang gts a 1ss and a 2 ss in the last 6 years. The hellcat was the most fun and sounded great. The gts just don't sound the same as the older pushrod 5.0 v8. Mustang owners think a loud car is a fast car, NOT! I liked both of the ss cars and I'm in the market for one now if I can find a dealer that not wanting to rape me on the deal.

As far as the EV thing. The speed may be nice but the just will not sound like a real car. I especially don't like the idea of having to plug my can in when I run out of a charge.

[plus1zero]

I mean they'll approve anybody with a pulse for an FCA product. Yeah, I see a ton of base model V6 challengers all day on the road.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with this...

Now, as far as discussion...

5 cars is a little sarcasm. The Camaro production numbers might as well be that low. I am sure the car isn't profitable due to such a low volume.

When you have people walking up to your car and saying "WOW! This is really nice! What is it?", you have a brand issue.

When you have people saying "Nice Mustang!", you have a SERIOUS brand issue.

Conversely, everybody and their dog knows what a Hellcat is and what it can do.

Now, on select models, you can order Challengers and Chargers "ala carte" to a degree. That is supposed to be unrealistic and not profitable in today's auto manufacturing world. But, they are doing it and guess what? Their sales will continue to climb....

Meanwhile, gm continues to watch sales dwindle and seem perfectly content with it.

Devils advocate on the Charger/Challenger marketing side.

Dodge only has 3 vehicles in their line up now(considering they spun Ram off into its "own" brand). I think a few years ago they only had 5. They don't have anything else. Any marketing Dodge does will have to feature Challenger/Charger by default. Also probably why the have some "a la carte" options in their. They don't have anything else. Dodge is now just Charger, Challenger and Durango.

[raptor5244]

Everyone excited for some eMuscle?

https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/22/...roduction-2024

[JasonGofast]

People just love their style. The supercharger whine, the big body, classic look. It really has the camaro beat in appeal everywhere.

Marketing? As if Dodge has to do any marketing. Look at what's at the top of car social media. If it's not an exotic it's a Hellcat running from cops, doing donuts in the middle of an intersection, or in some video with a tacky wrap and color changing headlights.

Then on top of that it has big horsepower numbers and catchy names. Nevermind the weight or actual track stats. Talk to someone casually into cars talk about horsepower numbers as if it's the only statistic that dictates performance. They don't want the SS or ZL1. They want the Redeye, the DEMON.