GM to pay back US & Canada loans in June

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

I corrected your I'd to it'd. You meant me.

I may have asinine thoughts, but don't you think building low quality cars and focusing on 5,000 lb. trucks was pretty asinine too for the last 10 years? Then they get the bailout and are then allowed to screw all of their faithful shareholders? Now they can start paying back their loans. Big whoop.

However, I am happy more GM employees did not lose their jobs.

All the big execs at GM are enjoying bonuses and fat cat life styles, even though they ruined the company. The rest of us are enjoying the economy GM helped ruin.

Fraxum, where do you get this?

First of all everyone seems to think that GM should not have been making trucks. Trucks make money..............they still do. So as a shareholder you wanted GM to make less money? That makes no sense.

"Faithful" shareholders? When did that ever mean anything. You had a chance to get out at any point you wanted. My financial advisor pulled me out 2 years ago because he saw it coming. So as a loyal employee, even I didn't hang on till worthless. Don't you read the fine print on all the infomercials....."No guarantee of profits, your results may vary".

And I am completely baffled on where you get this fat cat lifestyle crap. I know some of the execs you think are living as fat cats. They haven't had bonuses in YEARS. Many of them were let go or "retired" just like my wife was last year and many, many more we releveled and are no longer executives.

Sorry, just had to clear those up for you.....................but as is often the case.................the truth doesn't sway the uniformed.

[R6P]

I started this thread announcing what I considered to be good news for us, GM, US and Canada, dare I say "the worlds" economic state... (OK, that one might be a stretch)
It wasn't posted to start a debate, but I guess that's the nature of the internet

Can we just try to see the future looks bright

[1badSS/RS]

WOW!! Amazing and great news. Get the govt. out,

[DkknightX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I am hoping by deadwood you mean the horendous legacy costs GM had on the books and not the people. I had to fire 5 people last year............all far from deadwood...........and I won't go into what happened to Mrs. Number 3, a 25 year veteran of GM who was "terminated" 2 weeks after receiving her 25 year service award.

I think he was referring to all the shady, extraneous dealerships that had their GM new car dealer licenses expire and not renewed. I'm sure this helped a ton and thank God they shut down D&C Chevrolet of Westwood, NJ. What a crap hole of a dealership that place was. Underhanded finance department, shady management, unsympathetic and horrible service department. Can't believe those a-holes actually had the balls to give my father a military discount, seal the deal and then call my parents up the next day saying that the finance manager messed up and wasn't supposed to give my father the discount and demanded us to give the money back to him. In good faith, we returned half of it, but we shouldn't. We're paying your finance department, as professionals, to make sure all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed. If you screw up in our favor. Tough luck for you and your dealership. The guy was actually threatening us. Glad they got flushed down the toilet. I spit on them before I flushed. Good riddance!

Hey Number 3, you can't save the world man. Have to crack eggs to make an omelette. With all of the buzz surrounding GM going down the crapper for the better part of 40 years, I'm sure all of the executives saw all the rats jumping ship but failed to plan accordingly. Instead of having a "wait and see" attitude, they should have been actively looking for other jobs feverishly in the meantime. That's what my wife did working in Pharmaceuticals. 1 year stint, blurbs of the company being merged/bought out and she wasted NO time looking for another job. Found one before the ship sank with her on board. Yeah, it sucks those people lost their jobs, but if you don't have a contingency plan, that is your problem and you can complain/whine about firing people all day. If they didn't have a back-up plan? Please don't make it our problem.

[Shifty 6]

My guess is, I could get my new camaro in June if I wasn't burdened with that pesky legacy mortgage on my house. I am glad GM is doing much better. But I have to say, I am not shocked that when they eliminated the huge burden of the legacy costs they are fairly profitable.

As to the guy who says GM was foolish for making poor quality cars and 5,000 lbs trucks.....

The trucks were the highest selling vehicle with the exception of a 3-5 month period (i speak in generalities for simplicity) Go look at the Honda and Tyoter (Toyota) lots right now. The Hybrids are stacking up like rabbits. We are in America, Americans want the SUV, the bigger the better. The small car people are saying "we NEED $4 gas to help move these cars. No one is buying them."

For the quality of cars. Yes they have struggled in the past, but go look at the CTS, Malibu, Equinox, Camaro, Cobalt, Acadia, all the Buick cars... it's home run after home run. You can't design a car in 6 months, so it is obvious the government wasn't the one to "fix" everything.

[DkknightX]

Originally Posted by Shifty 6

My guess is, I could get my new camaro in June if I wasn't burdened with that pesky legacy mortgage on my house. I am glad GM is doing much better. But I have to say, I am not shocked that when they eliminated the huge burden of the legacy costs they are fairly profitable.

As to the guy who says GM was foolish for making poor quality cars and 5,000 lbs trucks.....

The trucks were the highest selling vehicle with the exception of a 3-5 month period (i speak in generalities for simplicity) Go look at the Honda and Tyoter (Toyota) lots right now. The Hybrids are stacking up like rabbits. We are in America, Americans want the SUV, the bigger the better. The small car people are saying "we NEED $4 gas to help move these cars. No one is buying them."

For the quality of cars. Yes they have struggled in the past, but go look at the CTS, Malibu, Equinox, Camaro, Cobalt, Acadia, all the Buick cars... it's home run after home run. You can't design a car in 6 months, so it is obvious the government wasn't the one to "fix" everything.

Home run after home run, eh? Shall I break out the quotes from Jeremy Clarkson after he reviewed a Caddy CTS? Car was a toy with many craftsmanship issues and cheap, disposable parts for a country that embraces a "throw-away" economy. Hardly a home-run. Hopefully the attention to quality and detail can improve once we put all this behind us. I still say the composite metal on the Gen4 Camaro was far superior to the crap sheet metal we're getting on the Gen5.

[LOWDOWN]

Two points here:

1) GM got it's one and only "bailout"...so, don't be throwin' around BILLION$ till you're damn sure the Volt/Cruze/Spark are HIT$...and a new C/K is ready... What's another year?! They'll NOT have the chance to get more, if they pay 'er back too quickly...

2) The "pain" has been pretty well spread around. Some terribly arbitrary decisions have been made re: Dealer body (NOT all the cancelled ones "deserved" it, some saved did...), employees (some families lost BOTH incomes...), suppliers (who deserved it why?), shareholders (the writing was on the wall a very long time...), bondholders (ditto), ad nauseum...

[LOWDOWN]

Now for some news that's SPECIFIC to this Forum...

Anyone, here, know a guy by the name of Vince Muniga? He was the guy involved "behind the scenes" in PR/Media/Print for the Camaro Launch, arguably a VERY successful launch indeed, right?

Yup...Vince got canned in April, just as the car came to Market...

"Thanks for a job VERY well done..."

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Two points here:

1) GM got it's one and only "bailout"...so, don't be throwin' around BILLION$ till you're damn sure the Volt/Cruze/Spark are HIT$...and a new C/K is ready... What's another year?! They'll NOT have the chance to get more, if they pay 'er back too quickly...

On the other hand, they're making profit right now, or they wouldn't be able to pay these loans back (as they started to already last year)...and if, out of fear/caution, they held on the money....the longer they did so the worse PR it would bring.

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

2) The "pain" has been pretty well spread around. Some terribly arbitrary decisions have been made re: Dealer body (NOT all the cancelled ones "deserved" it, some saved did...), employees (some families lost BOTH incomes...), suppliers (who deserved it why?), shareholders (the writing was on the wall a very long time...), bondholders (ditto), ad nauseum...

All stories have two sides...and sadly, not all of them have happy endings.

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Now for some news that's SPECIFIC to this Forum...

Anyone, here, know a guy by the name of Vince Muniga? He was the guy involved "behind the scenes" in PR/Media/Print for the Camaro Launch, arguably a VERY successful launch indeed, right?

Yup...Vince got canned in April, just as the car came to Market...

"Thanks for a job VERY well done..."

Again...two sides to every story. What was his seniority? Did he stand out among his peers? Why was he let go?

[5thGenOwner]

It's hard to say anything about this... without getting political. There is alot behind the scenes that even those on this board don't know about (yes, even you #3). Whether we want to admit it or not, governments now own this company (along with a small slice for the unions). And I can not believe that the OWNERS of this company do not have a say in what goes on.

That being said... this whole announcement reeks of some kind of political stunt. Exactly as a prior poster said, so this administration can pat itself on the back and say "see it worked".

If anything... I'll believe it when I see it! Stop promising us stuff, then making excuses when you fail. Like Nike... JUST DO IT!

EDIT: Or like my step-father has always told me... "Don't tell me what you are going to do (in 6 months), show me what you have done!"

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

It's hard to say anything about this... without getting political. There is alot behind the scenes that even those on this board don't know about (yes, even you #3). Whether we want to admit it or not, governments now own this company (along with a small slice for the unions). And I can not believe that the OWNERS of this company do not have a say in what goes on.

That being said... this whole announcement reeks of some kind of political stunt. Exactly as a prior poster said, so this administration can pat itself on the back and say "see it worked".

If anything... I'll believe it when I see it! Stop promising us stuff, then making excuses when you fail. Like Nike... JUST DO IT!

EDIT: Or like my step-father has always told me... "Don't tell me what you are going to do (in 6 months), show me what you have done!"

well, they HAVE been making money and are CONTINUING to do so. I'd say their prediction is pretty accurate.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

It's hard to say anything about this... without getting political. There is alot behind the scenes that even those on this board don't know about (yes, even you #3). Whether we want to admit it or not, governments now own this company (along with a small slice for the unions). And I can not believe that the OWNERS of this company do not have a say in what goes on.

That being said... this whole announcement reeks of some kind of political stunt. Exactly as a prior poster said, so this administration can pat itself on the back and say "see it worked".

If anything... I'll believe it when I see it! Stop promising us stuff, then making excuses when you fail. Like Nike... JUST DO IT!

EDIT: Or like my step-father has always told me... "Don't tell me what you are going to do (in 6 months), show me what you have done!"

Cool sig by the way.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

If anything... I'll believe it when I see it! Stop promising us stuff, then making excuses when you fail. Like Nike... JUST DO IT!

Well, all conspiracy theories aside...the good news for you is: THEY HAVE!

In announcing the move, approved by GM's board Friday, Mr. Whitacre also reiterated GM plans to repay by June the $5.7 billion in loans outstanding it received from the U.S. government and an additional $1.4 billion it owes the Canadian government. The repayments will come from an escrow fund holding money GM borrowed from the governments; it has decided it doesn't need all of the loans.

GM repaid $1 billion to the U.S. in December. The U.S. in total gave GM $50 billion, most of which was converted into GM stock.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...tions_business

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DkknightX

I
Hey Number 3, you can't save the world man. Have to crack eggs to make an omelette. With all of the buzz surrounding GM going down the crapper for the better part of 40 years, I'm sure all of the executives saw all the rats jumping ship but failed to plan accordingly. Instead of having a "wait and see" attitude, they should have been actively looking for other jobs feverishly in the meantime. That's what my wife did working in Pharmaceuticals. 1 year stint, blurbs of the company being merged/bought out and she wasted NO time looking for another job. Found one before the ship sank with her on board. Yeah, it sucks those people lost their jobs, but if you don't have a contingency plan, that is your problem and you can complain/whine about firing people all day. If they didn't have a back-up plan? Please don't make it our problem.

40 years? Maybe not that long. That, at least for me is dabatable. I look at the real slide as 82 when there were 4 A-bodies, 5 J-bodies and 2 F-bodies all sharing exact or similar sheetmetal. Then in 85, you had the downsizing of the Toronado, Eldorado and Riviera to nearly N-body size and shape. Yes, there were some precursors to that, but that was the begining of the product slide. Keep in mind in the late 70's, GM still had a very credible mid-size car portfolio. IMO

It's tough to understand unless you've lived in Michigan. Having a job at GM, Ford or Chrysler is looked at the top tier. It would be like playing for a Major league team and then they may be at risk so you decide you'll just jump down to AAA ball. You don't just go look for another job because things look risky and tenuous. Even with the hack to our pensions, elimination of health care post 65 there isn't really a better place to work in our state. Going to a supplier has always looked at as a subserviant job. You would now have two bosses basically, your company and one of the OEMs. Yes there is a little bit of movement BETWEEN OEMs, but it doesn't happen often. So looking out for yourself just doesn't apply. You still have some pension so jumping to a company with little or no pension is a choice for the kids that hired in after 2001. They have no defined pension or benefits. So for them to move is likely. Just haven't hired too many that age lately.

Your point is well taken, it just doesn't apply when you can't slide over to an equal job. You wouldn't go take less pay and benefits just in case you could lose your job. And in Michigan, the job market has been much worse than the rest of the country for many years now, so any real opportunities required relocation.

Originally Posted by DkknightX

Home run after home run, eh? Shall I break out the quotes from Jeremy Clarkson after he reviewed a Caddy CTS? Car was a toy with many craftsmanship issues and cheap, disposable parts for a country that embraces a "throw-away" economy. Hardly a home-run. Hopefully the attention to quality and detail can improve once we put all this behind us. I still say the composite metal on the Gen4 Camaro was far superior to the crap sheet metal we're getting on the Gen5.

That would be the same Clarkson that couldn't say enough good things about the CTS-V when they came over and drove the CTS-V, ZR-1 and the Challenger. And oh, in case you havn't noticed, he is always bashing anything American. I find him amusing most of the time, but need to keep a grain of salt handy. LOL

And I am really curious as to what you base the Gen 5 sheetmetal not being up to snuff. The gap and flushness of the panels is so far superior to a Gen 4 it just isn't even close.