Blue Angel [COTW 5/30/11]

[Doc]

Originally Posted by CamaroFemme

Hey Doc! Awesome job as usual. Did I miss the exhaust video? I urge you to put one up because I wanna hear it! Dare you bite the bullet and put a price beside each of those components??? (But seriously, genuinely curious.)

Thanks. No you didn't miss the video; I have the footage in my computer, just need to edit it and figure out how to post it lol. I'm afraid if I put a price next to each of the components on that list I'll realize what I've spent on this car and basically ignorance is bliss

[Doc]

I'm trying to upload a video of the "before" dyno run.... hopefully I figured this out correctly. This was recorded with my Canon S90 still camera.



This is the "after" run. This was recorded with my iPhone4.

[1977and2010]

Sounding real good. Its funny you got a Mantic clutch because I just did also from ECS but I got the ER2 single disk. I just finished the break in and it has gotten better. At first I was worried, it chattered a bit but that seems to have gone away and if I didn't dam near pop the clutch taking off every time it stunk real bad like I had been riding it out and burning it, but that too has mostly gone away. But the one thing that hasn't gone away is a bit of a grinding sound when it is in neutral. With my nowhere near scientific digital bath scale it says the single is about 8 lbs lighter. That 8 lbs also made a difference with take off, it was harder to get a smooth takeoff. But I learned that this can be adjusted with the tune, I didn't know that, and now is much better at takeoff. I also found out that the clutches come with throw out bearings but for a Vette not us Camaro guys. Would have been nice for ECS to let us know of that. i just reused my stock one.

Anyway great sounding and looking car, good job.

[4thGen427CI]

Man you're about right there with a stock C6Z! I did 3162/440 = 7.18-1 P/W ratio. I'd rather have your car than a new C6Z too! I'd still have four seats and a muscle car, not sport/super car. Don't think I don't like sport cars either, I'm just all to the bone muscle guy!

[speedster]

Doc -

Looking and sounding terrific !!

That Mantic clutch is awesome... ( nice case too - a very complete kit)

Thanks for documenting all weight savings, cam change info and power to weight ratios. All very cool and helpful stuff for so many...

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Doc

Just weighed the stock clutch and flywheel bolted together and they weigh 57 lbs 2.2 oz or 57.13 lbs.

Attachment 320087

So with the stock setup weighing 57.1 and the Mantic setup I replaced it with weighing 35.1 I've saved a clean 22 lbs of static and rotating weight. Since my car weighed 3740 lbs with a full tank before I did these mods, theoretically it should now weigh 3718 lbs. I'll take it to a truck scale to get it weighed. But assuming the weight of 3718 and the new power of 468 rwhp my power-to-weight ratio is now 7.94-1 beating my target goal of 8-1.

Have not checked your build in a while just want to say I'm really impressed with the weight savings. I'm going this route too and the info really helps. Love the Mantic.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by 1977and2010

Sounding real good. Its funny you got a Mantic clutch because I just did also from ECS but I got the ER2 single disk. I just finished the break in and it has gotten better. At first I was worried, it chattered a bit but that seems to have gone away and if I didn't dam near pop the clutch taking off every time it stunk real bad like I had been riding it out and burning it, but that too has mostly gone away. But the one thing that hasn't gone away is a bit of a grinding sound when it is in neutral. With my nowhere near scientific digital bath scale it says the single is about 8 lbs lighter. That 8 lbs also made a difference with take off, it was harder to get a smooth takeoff. But I learned that this can be adjusted with the tune, I didn't know that, and now is much better at takeoff. I also found out that the clutches come with throw out bearings but for a Vette not us Camaro guys. Would have been nice for ECS to let us know of that. i just reused my stock one.

Anyway great sounding and looking car, good job.

Yeah they sent the wrong release bearing in my kit too. I have zero problems with this clutch; I like it a LOT. Much better and easier to drive than the stock one.

Originally Posted by 4thGen427CI

Man you're about right there with a stock C6Z! I did 3162/440 = 7.18-1 P/W ratio. I'd rather have your car than a new C6Z too! I'd still have four seats and a muscle car, not sport/super car. Don't think I don't like sport cars either, I'm just all to the bone muscle guy!

Well I'd have to drop another 360 lbs out of the car to get down to a 7.18 P/W ratio and that's not going to happen. Even though I've only removed 142 lbs of static weight, I've put in the time and effort to remove the right kind of weight so the benefit is much greater than if I'd just removed 142 lbs of plain weight. And I'm with you on choice of cars; I'd much rather have the Camaro.

Originally Posted by speedster

Doc -

Looking and sounding terrific !!

That Mantic clutch is awesome... ( nice case too - a very complete kit)

Thanks for documenting all weight savings, cam change info and power to weight ratios. All very cool and helpful stuff for so many...

I couldn't be happier with this clutch. It makes the stock clutch feel like a truck clutch by comparison. The engagement is very clean and precise; no sudden grab. Thanks for the compliments and it's my pleasure.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Have not checked your build in a while just want to say I'm really impressed with the weight savings. I'm going this route too and the info really helps. Love the Mantic.

If you could drive my car compared to a stock one you'd be amazed at the difference; and not just in the power, but how it responds. I looked at all the clutches and flywheels I could find out there and I chose the Mantic because of their design, philosophy of design, and the fact their flywheel/clutch combo is SFI certified. A lot of lighter flywheels aren't; especially aluminum ones. It was more expensive than some and not as expensive as others, but so far I'm VERY impressed with it. I'm still in the break-in period but already it's clearly superior to the stock setup.

[Doc]

Took the car to the gas station today, filled it up completely and took it to a truck scale to weigh it. To my delight (and great surprise) the weight wasn't 3,718 lbs as I was expecting, it was 3,680 lbs!



Since it weighed 3,740 the last time I went there, and the only things I've done to it since then is the recent replacement of the flywheel, clutch and cam, and I know the flywheel/clutch combo is only 22 lbs lighter than the stock setup... that means the new cam must weigh 38 lbs less than the stock cam. This is something I hadn't even thought of; I just assumed the cams would weigh the same. The new Comp Cams replacement included new valve springs, retainers and cam gears too so the new weight means it's 19 lbs lighter than the stock cam, springs, retainers and gear.

Going from 3,740 to 3,680 means 60 lbs of weight was removed from the engine when I did this upgrade which is great because not only is it rotating weight, it's also front-of-car weight which will help improve the weight balance front/rear. I'm going to have to weigh the old cam just to get a number but this was a great (and welcome) surprise! My overall project goal had been to get the car's static weight down to 3,700 and I'm now under that by 20 lbs.

With the new actual weight of 3,680 lbs my power to weight ratio is P/W = 3,680/468 =7.86. And that's with a full tank of gas. This means if I'm running with a 1/4 tank of fuel (as I would at the drag strip) which removes 84 lbs of fuel weight, my car (without me in it) weighs 3,596 lbs. That's a P/W of 7.68 which is not too shabby.

[4thGen427CI]

Originally Posted by Doc

Took the car to the gas station today, filled it up completely and took it to a truck scale to weigh it. To my delight (and great surprise) the weight wasn't 3,718 lbs as I was expecting, it was 3,680 lbs!

With the new actual weight of 3,680 lbs my power to weight ratio is P/W = 3,680/468 =7.86. And that's with a full tank of gas. This means if I'm running with a 1/4 tank of fuel (as I would at the drag strip) which removes 84 lbs of fuel weight, my car (without me in it) weighs 3,596 lbs. That's a P/W of 7.68 which is not too shabby.

Wow Doc that is a great surprise! You inspire me to do no forced induction whatsoever.

[Padre]

Since it weighed 3,740 the last time I went there, and the only things I've done to it since then is the recent replacement of the flywheel, clutch and cam, and I know the flywheel/clutch combo is only 22 lbs lighter than the stock setup... that means the new cams must weigh 38 lbs less than the stock cams. This is something I hadn't even thought of; I just assumed the cams would weigh the same. The new Comp Cams replacement included new valve springs, retainers and cam gears too so the new weight means each set is 19 lbs lighter than the stock cam, springs, retainers and gear.

Doc, are you sure? I doubt the entire package of cam, springs, retainers, and gear weigh more than 19 lbs all together. And I am sure that the Comp cam itself is virtually identical in weight to the stock cam.

BTW, when I weighed minie after all my changes and <1/4 tank of gas, I came in at 3740 lbs as well. 3900 with me in it.

Padre

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Padre

Doc, are you sure? I doubt the entire package of cam, springs, retainers, and gear weigh more than 19 lbs all together. And I am sure that the Comp cam itself is virtually identical in weight to the stock cam.

BTW, when I weighed minie after all my changes and <1/4 tank of gas, I came in at 3740 lbs as well. 3900 with me in it.

Padre

I was very surprised by the weight but this is a certified, registered truck scale that has to be correct by law for taxes so I'm accepting the number as accurate. I was thinking about this last night and I remembered that I had switched out the temporary aluminum driveshaft that DSS had sent with the new carbon fiber one but the weight difference was only about 2 lbs so I'm still trying to figure out where the additional 36 lbs of reduction is.

[Padre]

Originally Posted by Doc

I was very surprised by the weight but this is a certified, registered truck scale that has to be correct by law for taxes so I'm accepting the number as accurate. I was thinking about this last night and I remembered that I had switched out the temporary aluminum driveshaft that DSS had sent with the new carbon fiber one but the weight difference was only about 2 lbs so I'm still trying to figure out where the additional 36 lbs of reduction is.

Interesting. My 3740 weight is without the passenger seat, which is 40 lbs. Of course, 5 gallons of pretty much any fluid will get you close to 36 lbs.



Was there a fat cat walking across the scales?

Padre

[SUX2BU]

Certified truck scales have to be accurate but I'm not sure what the margin for error is on those. The difference you noticed is less than 1%.

[Doc]

Here's a clip of a few laps at Firebird Raceway west track in Chandler, Arizona at the C5Fest 2 in April of last year. The lead orange car in front has 700 rwhp, I had 405 rwhp. He clearly had the advantage on the straights but I had a weight advantage (by several hundred pounds) and a braking and handling advantage. I don't know what the 2nd car (black with orange stripes) had but I think he was supercharged too. I got faster as I got familiar with the track and was able to use the braking and handling advantage I had to good effect. After only a few laps we'd caught the back of the pack.

I put a heavy audio filter on the clip to reduce the wind noise which was considerable. I used a GoPro cam that was attached to the top of the windshield. Lots of fun.