a lesson on automatic transmission - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

mikeSS · 11-29-2009, 11:23 PM

I have allot of people on this forums and people i talk to that dont seem to understand the different between - --- manual mode ----- and -- manual

so i thought i could help the people who need a lesson

basic facts ***
ok a manual, means that a person manually shifts the gears, and uses a clutch to slide the gears into place. or how ever you wanna word it.

a auto is made to automatically change the gears for the driver with it built in technology.
***

a Nissan gtr, it has paddle shifting. most paddle shifters have double clutch systems. which make unbelievable fast shifts. ( most super cars are going this way)

when u have a auto, and you put you car into the "M" and you think its manual mode is just as effective as having a manual or even better when people tell me that there auto has paddle shifters and says its faster because Ferraris have them. well they are both wrong

if you have a auto then you have a system called "tiptronic"
tiptronic is not a double clutch system

it is not as effective as a manual or paddle shifters
but one day they will only make paddle shifters, because a mans hand can not out speed a supercomputer.

do some homework . hope this helps

PnCRedJwl2SS · 11-30-2009, 10:07 AM

Not to disagree with you too much, because I believe your facts are straight about the differences between tiptronic and double clutch systems...but I've done my homework. I drove manual transmission Camaros for over 25 years.

Over that time, I became very accomplished at shifting quickly and smoothly, but there is no way I could manually beat the shift times of my new 2SS L99 with its tiptronic. Just pulling away from a stop light is even faster in the L99, because to beat it with a manual shifter, I would have to hold the clutch in while waiting for the light to turn green (terrible for the throwout bearing and pressure plate, to my understanding).

And then, while each manual gear shift requires that I push in the clutch and let off the gas while changing gears (even if only for a split second), The L99 shifts by itself (very quickly) without me having to lift off the accelerator at all!

I know very experienced manual drivers might beat your average auto driver in a 0-60 or 1/4 mile race, but I think that would be mainly due to experience and not the transmissions of their respective cars.

Now...all of this is just my opinion...and I don't know engines or trannys well enough to state any of this as fact. I'm just posting my thoughts here to continue the conversation. I'd love to learn more about factors I might not have considered here--like the differences in the L99 vs LS3 engines (valves, lifters, etc.).

Bottom line...please help me understand (with all other things being equal), how a manual can beat the shift times of an auto.

Thanks!

MontyCarlo · 11-30-2009, 10:19 AM

In GM's official stated 0-60 and quarter mile times, the auto is equal to or slightly faster than the manual. Something to chew on, for anyone with a manual superiority complex.

klatterblast · 11-30-2009, 10:36 AM

i have the l99 and i know for a fact the trans shifts quicker on its own compared to using the paddle shifter there is a slight hesitation when you paddle shift. the quickest shift possible is dropping the shifter into manual or s on the dash but dont touch the paddles just hold the gas peddal to the floor and let it shift by itself then theres no chance of hitting the rev limiter which will make it bog and slow down.

JohnInSoCal · 11-30-2009, 10:51 AM

for quickest shifts stick it in M (sport mode) and let the computer figure out when to shift. If you want it even quicker still then get a tune and have it shift quicker, I have a tune with aggressive auto shifting and a supercharger/headers and it's damn quick.

Using manual mode (tap shifters) is not to speed up the shifts but rather have you decide when to shift and when to just hold onto a gear, or down shift. If you are racing around a track then this might be useful, not useful at all for drag racing as it's slower the computer shifting and in every day driving only useful for occasional fun but I rarely use it. A DCT might be nice for the camaro for lightening fast shifts around a track but still for drag racing you would want the computer to shift for you.

Bottom line is it just comes down to what you want to do with the car and if you like to manually shift or not. The performance is very comparable with both, how fast you want to go in the 1/4 mile is mainly an issue with how much money you want to spend on mods.

mikedcmf · 11-30-2009, 10:57 AM

who cares... u bought an automatic because you wanted to drive an automatic. with the camaro it has the paddle shifter option. it also runs on 4 cyleners on the highway, ow cool is that? I bought the stick shift because its fun... mere preference. you might take me off the line, you might take me 0-60, you might take me in the 1/4 mile, i really don't care. I do know that the 850 miles i have put on my slick 2ss have been incredibly fun

This car rocks the socks and the looks.... I stop traffic like a hot blonde going topless
jmho guys, i guess i am bored

v6sonoma · 11-30-2009, 11:04 AM

Where the manual transmission succeeds is that it's always in the gear YOU want. Some autos with the shift it yourself option are better than others but some will force an upshift before you want it. Also autos require more attention over time. Manuals mainly just have to worry about clutch wear. Autos can offer far faster shifts but in my opinion manuals offer a far more enjoyable experience.

StlRomAniaN · 11-30-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v6sonoma

Where the manual transmission succeeds is that it's always in the gear YOU want. Some autos with the shift it yourself option are better than others but some will force an upshift before you want it. Also autos require more attention over time. Manuals mainly just have to worry about clutch wear. Autos can offer far faster shifts but in my opinion manuals offer a far more enjoyable experience.

The tranny on the A6 does not upshift automatically. It will bounce of the rev limiter

brAnd7onX · 11-30-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikedcmf

who cares... u bought an automatic because you wanted to drive an automatic. with the camaro it has the paddle shifter option. it also runs on 4 cyleners on the highway, ow cool is that? I bought the stick shift because its fun... mere preference. you might take me off the line, you might take me 0-60, you might take me in the 1/4 mile, i really don't care. I do know that the 850 miles i have put on my slick 2ss have been incredibly fun

This car rocks the socks and the looks.... I stop traffic like a hot blonde going topless
jmho guys, i guess i am bored

Don't sound like a sore loser. There is nothing wrong with getting a manual and you don't have to defend yourself. Everyone knows why people get the manual...

klatterblast · 11-30-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StlRomAniaN

The tranny on the A6 does not upshift automatically. It will bounce of the rev limiter

yes it does upshift automaticaly but in man.tap shift mode it will hit the rev limiter ,several options with the L99.

klatterblast · 11-30-2009, 01:50 PM

ultimatly for serious drag racing everyone knows automatics are king. mostly powerglides, th350 and th400

11-29-2009, 11:23 PM	#1
mikeSS Drives: 2015 c7 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: MI Posts: 7,462	a lesson on automatic transmission I have allot of people on this forums and people i talk to that dont seem to understand the different between - --- manual mode ----- and -- manual so i thought i could help the people who need a lesson basic facts * ok a manual, means that a person manually shifts the gears, and uses a clutch to slide the gears into place. or how ever you wanna word it. a auto is made to automatically change the gears for the driver with it built in technology. * a Nissan gtr, it has paddle shifting. most paddle shifters have double clutch systems. which make unbelievable fast shifts. ( most super cars are going this way) when u have a auto, and you put you car into the "M" and you think its manual mode is just as effective as having a manual or even better when people tell me that there auto has paddle shifters and says its faster because Ferraris have them. well they are both wrong if you have a auto then you have a system called "tiptronic" tiptronic is not a double clutch system it is not as effective as a manual or paddle shifters but one day they will only make paddle shifters, because a mans hand can not out speed a supercomputer. do some homework . hope this helps

11-30-2009, 10:07 AM	#2
PnCRedJwl2SS Howdy! Pete here... Drives: 2017 50th Anniv 2SS, A8, NPP, MRC Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Schertz, TX Posts: 1,379 View My Garage	Not to disagree with you too much, because I believe your facts are straight about the differences between tiptronic and double clutch systems...but I've done my homework. I drove manual transmission Camaros for over 25 years. Over that time, I became very accomplished at shifting quickly and smoothly, but there is no way I could manually beat the shift times of my new 2SS L99 with its tiptronic. Just pulling away from a stop light is even faster in the L99, because to beat it with a manual shifter, I would have to hold the clutch in while waiting for the light to turn green (terrible for the throwout bearing and pressure plate, to my understanding). And then, while each manual gear shift requires that I push in the clutch and let off the gas while changing gears (even if only for a split second), The L99 shifts by itself (very quickly) without me having to lift off the accelerator at all! I know very experienced manual drivers might beat your average auto driver in a 0-60 or 1/4 mile race, but I think that would be mainly due to experience and not the transmissions of their respective cars. Now...all of this is just my opinion...and I don't know engines or trannys well enough to state any of this as fact. I'm just posting my thoughts here to continue the conversation. I'd love to learn more about factors I might not have considered here--like the differences in the L99 vs LS3 engines (valves, lifters, etc.). Bottom line...please help me understand (with all other things being equal), how a manual can beat the shift times of an auto. Thanks! __________________ PnCRedJwl2SS 2017 50th Anniversary Edition, A8, NPP, MRC, w/Sunroof and Glow-tie! ___________________________________________ ___________________________________________ Ordered from GM Delivered to dealership and home 9-16-16 This car is a beast!

11-30-2009, 10:19 AM	#3
MontyCarlo Drives: 2010 2LT/RS auto IBM Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,259	In GM's official stated 0-60 and quarter mile times, the auto is equal to or slightly faster than the manual. Something to chew on, for anyone with a manual superiority complex. __________________ FAQs: 1. No, I do not have any strong opinions about the Monte Carlo. 2. Yes, I know what my name looks like. 3. Yes, but the medication helps immensely. 2LT/RS IBM/gray #21,895 ordered April 21st, delivered July 3rd

11-30-2009, 10:36 AM	#4
klatterblast Drives: 2010 camaro 2ssrs blk. Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: walker la. Posts: 1,732 View My Garage	i have the l99 and i know for a fact the trans shifts quicker on its own compared to using the paddle shifter there is a slight hesitation when you paddle shift. the quickest shift possible is dropping the shifter into manual or s on the dash but dont touch the paddles just hold the gas peddal to the floor and let it shift by itself then theres no chance of hitting the rev limiter which will make it bog and slow down. __________________ 2010 Hennessey HPE650 2SSRS Blk/Blk Magnuson TVS2300,ported heads,cam,Hotchkis suspension. Weld 17”s, Mickey Thompson’s.

11-30-2009, 11:04 AM	#7
v6sonoma Drives: 2010 SS RS Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Providence, RI Posts: 8,108 View My Garage	Where the manual transmission succeeds is that it's always in the gear YOU want. Some autos with the shift it yourself option are better than others but some will force an upshift before you want it. Also autos require more attention over time. Manuals mainly just have to worry about clutch wear. Autos can offer far faster shifts but in my opinion manuals offer a far more enjoyable experience. __________________ Mods: BBK Intake, BBK LT's and High Flow Cats, Corsa Cat-back exhaust, Hurst short throw shifter, SLP skip-shift eliminator. 7/1/09 Placed order for IOM/IO int/ SS/RS 6M 9/26/09 Took delivery!

11-30-2009, 10:51 AM	#5
JohnInSoCal Drives: RJT L99 500HP Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 535	for quickest shifts stick it in M (sport mode) and let the computer figure out when to shift. If you want it even quicker still then get a tune and have it shift quicker, I have a tune with aggressive auto shifting and a supercharger/headers and it's damn quick. Using manual mode (tap shifters) is not to speed up the shifts but rather have you decide when to shift and when to just hold onto a gear, or down shift. If you are racing around a track then this might be useful, not useful at all for drag racing as it's slower the computer shifting and in every day driving only useful for occasional fun but I rarely use it. A DCT might be nice for the camaro for lightening fast shifts around a track but still for drag racing you would want the computer to shift for you. Bottom line is it just comes down to what you want to do with the car and if you like to manually shift or not. The performance is very comparable with both, how fast you want to go in the 1/4 mile is mainly an issue with how much money you want to spend on mods.

11-30-2009, 10:57 AM	#6
mikedcmf Mike Drives: 2010 2SS LS3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Northwood, Ohio Posts: 63	who cares... u bought an automatic because you wanted to drive an automatic. with the camaro it has the paddle shifter option. it also runs on 4 cyleners on the highway, ow cool is that? I bought the stick shift because its fun... mere preference. you might take me off the line, you might take me 0-60, you might take me in the 1/4 mile, i really don't care. I do know that the 850 miles i have put on my slick 2ss have been incredibly fun This car rocks the socks and the looks.... I stop traffic like a hot blonde going topless jmho guys, i guess i am bored

11-30-2009, 01:50 PM	#11
klatterblast Drives: 2010 camaro 2ssrs blk. Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: walker la. Posts: 1,732 View My Garage	ultimatly for serious drag racing everyone knows automatics are king. mostly powerglides, th350 and th400 __________________ 2010 Hennessey HPE650 2SSRS Blk/Blk Magnuson TVS2300,ported heads,cam,Hotchkis suspension. Weld 17”s, Mickey Thompson’s.