5th Gen Suspension -- The Book

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Kronix

Pete,
I was reviewing "The Book" and I notice you're recommending Forgeline 19" wheels with the Bridgestone RE-11s. Since we last spoke, I've done some serious HP upgrades and honestly, as I'm sure you know, the 22" wheels do the Pedders coil overs, and all my other suspension mods no justice. Sure they look good, but when you're 675 RWHP +, I'm more concerned with performance and staying on the road.

Do I really have to go down to a 19" if I'm not into competition? Would a 20" suffice, because that's the direction I was leaning? Staggered fitment or even size all the way around if I went 20"? Mind you the car probably won't see any auto cross, I just want great street handling and if it does go, it'll most likely be a straight line race.

Would I use the same Pedders alignment specs with the 20s? I know that I'll have to adjust the ride height and doing so, a new alignment would be needed, correct? What settings would you recommend? I need to get the new shoes this week, cause next week the blower cam & Bosch injectors go in along with a few other items, and wanted the right wheel set up for tuning.

Feel free to shoot me a PM if it's easier than answering here. As always thanks for your contributions & the awesome products you put out!

We ran the ZL1 spec GY 305/20s on the L/28 with great success. Like the Bridgestone RE-11, the side wall on the GYs is stout and the tread sticky. The setup is square. The downside is that the tire did rub on the inner fender liner, but for an OPTIMA car we considered that self clearancing

A 305/30/20 would most likely work with out a rub. Bridgestone and Pirelli each have a few good tire options in this size. This will put big meats on all four corners

[IOM Black Diamond]

Wow a lot of great info

[Rob@WretchedMS]

Just a reminder for those that haven't read this.

[Kronix]

This IS the BEST, informative thread on the site!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Kronix

This IS the BEST, informative thread on the site!

Thank you!

[JusticePete]

It is OFFICIAL!

Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates have been released for production. We'll have them in our online store and through our Dealer Network available for Pre-Orders. Retail $469.99 Pre-Order $399.99. A Deposit of $100 is Required. Guaranteed Delivery by March 1st 2013.

[572HP]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

It is OFFICIAL!

Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates have been released for production. We'll have them in our online store and through our Dealer Network available for Pre-Orders. Retail $469.99 Pre-Order $399.99. A Deposit of $100 is Required. Guaranteed Delivery by March 1st 2013.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by 572HP

Bush Timing, Alignment and Torque Specs

Do NOT use camber adjusting offset bolts on the Camaro



If you want to put them on your Honda or Subie it is up to you. They are not as strong as the OEM clevis bolts and are absolutely necessary on a 5th Gen Camaro. It is in the

This is the correct way to adjust front camber on the 5th Gen. One the alignment machine with the clevis bolts loose turning the camber screw tighter (Righty Tighty, Lefty Loosy) will push the knuckle away from the strut. Loosening the camber screw allows the knuckle to fall in toward the strut. It is a 10mm 1.5 pitch thread.



Your alignment shop may have a T.O.M.C.A.T. Air-Assisted Multiple Camber Adjustment Tool air bag. It fits between the wheel and the strut and works in the same way as the camber screw. Inflate (Righty Tighty) the bag to push the knuckle away from the strut or deflate (lefty Loosy) the bag to allow the knuckle to fall into the strut. If they don't, they have a guy that can push or pull on the wheel while they tighten it. Never, ever use those lame camber eccentric bolts on a Camaro. EVER!



Anyone that tells you different, have them call me

Pedders foundation as a company is more than just a range of bits, we are Suspension specialists committed to delivering a Pedders Driving Experience. A lowered vehicle should have a full range of alignment adjustments. The Camaro delivers from Chevrolet with a fixed Castor position. The radius arm bolts into round holes with no available adjustment. Front Camber is adjustable from the factory. There is a threaded hole for front Camber Adjustment Bolt / Screw, but no bolt is installed and no part number is listed by Chevrolet. The rear OEM eccentric adjusters for Toe and Camber provide approximately one degree adjustment range. For an alignment specialist, this is unacceptable. You want to get your Camaro perfectly setup. This is what Pedders is all about. Our solution is a set of cadmium plated eXtreme Alignment Bolts. While GM made the hole round for the front Castor Adjustment or lack thereof, they did weld in brackets for an eccentric to work against. Your local Pedders Dealer can create a slot to provide Castor adjustment with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolts. The kit provides the front Camber screws that GM didn't.



For the 5th Camaro, GM decided to produce the front sub-frame with only a round hole, but they kept the 'fences' for caster adjustment with eccentric bolts just like th Pontiac G8 and Holden Commodore. The slots to allow adjustment were lost in translation. For a performance driver, a vehicle without full alignment adjustment capability feels like driving with one hand tied behind your back. Pedders made the decision to make the Camaro front suspension fully adjustable.

Stock Radius Bush Mounting area with a round hole and adjustment 'fences'.



Step one requires the technician to drill two holes in the bracket.



Step two requires CAREFUL GRINDING. We use the two holes to make the grinding process more accurate while the technician creates a slot. The eccentric that will be used does not reach all the way to the bracket sides so a bit of excess metal is not an issue. The technician can check the clearance with a Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolt as they grind to make sure the fit is Pedders Perfect.



When assembled the Cadmium plated eccentric allows the alignment technician to increase or decrease Castor. A fully Pedderised Camaro with good tires will not require ANY BIAS in the alignment. We can do a road course style alignment and your Camaro will not pull. This is because the Pedders component have made the suspension more stable by reducing excess motion. Should your Camaro be tweaked and develop a pull the same Pedders Castor Eccentric Bolts can be used to create a bias to correct the pull. We strongly recommend that before you alter your alignment due to a pull that you have a qualified technician, because the machine is only as good as the tech, check your tires on a road force balance machine to make certain the pull is not induced by a tire. We will adjust them on the alignment rack. Here is the installed eccentric.



Alignments are Pedders core business so we decided to make the front camber screw part of the Camaro Alignment Bolt Kit. To install the Pedders Front Camber Screw it is essential that you use LocTite Blue. The Camber screw will never bear a load while driving, but we want to make certain they never vibrate out. LocTite Blue is ideal for this.



Pedders Rear Eccentrics are virtually bullet proof with approximately 2 degrees or double the factory adjustment. With the Camaro alignment Kit installed your Camaro can be setup for the drag strip, road course, auto cross or every day flawless driving. Even better, Pedders alignment eccentric bolts carry a unique warranty feature. Should a Pedders eccentric ever fail while you own the vehicle we will replace it. You get a superior alignment, improved driving experience and a life time warranty with Pedders Camaro Alignment Bolt kits.

To get the aggressive alignment we prefer Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit is required. They increase the adjustment range by 1 degree or in layman's terms a lot. We achieve this result my moving the eccentric to the outer edge of the bolt. The eccentrics are cut on a water jet, assembled in a jig and welded. This is a time consuming process. To finish the bolts we have them cadmium plated.



Eccentrics have a bad habit of drifting under high loads. We address that with more material. We make our eccentrics out of stock that is much thicker than the OEM bolts. More material means more strength and improved holding power.



We use a thick 'holding' nut and a thin jam nut. Unlike quenched nuts, you can use these again and again.



Taking the performance of your 5th Gen and alignment to the next level requires the use of Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates. With the stock front struts or Pedders coilovers you can achieve -2.2 Degrees of front camber. Relieving the upper slot in the strut to allow it to fall in a bit more will get you to -2.5. When running high negative camber it is Mission Critical to check spacing between the inner tire sidewall and the strut or coilover. We use a standard #2 lead pencil as a gauge. If the pencil passes between the tire and the strut or coilover you are good to go. With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates we suggest you run them full in, maxed out for negative camber. Positioning the stut top well in toward the engine improves SAI. Your 5th Gen will drive better. Final adjust the negative camber at the knuckle using the camber adjustment screw.

Maxed out for Negative Camber



Neutral Position i.e. The same position as the OEM Mount.



FE4 / FE5 / ZL1 / Pedderised Hardcore Track Alignment with Appropriate Tires

Front
Caster: Max it out with Pedders Caster Eccentrics
Camber: -3.5 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and NO Strut Tower Bar.
Camber : -4.00 With Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plates and a Strut Tower Bar
Toe: OUT 0.50
Total Toe OUT 1.00

Rear
Camber -0.80
Toe: IN .20

Pedders Full Camaro Alignment Kit and Dual Bearing Cambers Plates are Required.

Bush Timing

Step 1. Lift the car on a two post lift and raise it.

Step 2. Loosen the following bolts/nuts:
Front:
---Inner Control Arm Bushing
---Inner Radius Rod
Rear:
---Trailing Arm Bushings (both ends)
---Toe Rod Bushings (both ends)
---Lower Control Arm Bushings (Inner)
---Upper Control Arm Bushings (Rearward)
---Lower Strut Bushings

Step 3.
Lower the car and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY and on to the alignment lift.

Step 4.
With the weight of the car on the wheels tighten all of the nuts/bolts to spec.

Step 5.
Align the car at the new ride height.

Alignment




Front and Rear Bolt Torque Values




NOTE: Torque specifications that read XX torque value and XX degrees are usually TTY and require replacement of the bolt, nut or both. If replacement parts are not available from GM the minimum acceptable torque will be those values stated along with a liberal application of a thread locker i.e. LocTite.

[Rob@WretchedMS]

bump for info

[Sapper12b]

I know what I'm buying !!!!

[Bosse'sBoss]

Starting with the tires sizes on the new Z28, I see some similarities with Pedders's '10 Camaro Project

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Starting with the tires sizes on the new Z28, I see some similarities with Pedders's '10 Camaro Project

Too bad the Z/28 doesn't have these.

It is raining camber plates!!!!!





They are now officially in-stock ready for immediate delivery!

Pedders 581050 Camaro-Dual-Bearing-Camber Plates

1.9 Degrees of Additional Negative Camber Adjustment
18mm Thick Monster Plate
Dual Bearing Configuration
Banded Thrust Bearing for Strut Rotation
Large Monoball for Strut Articulation
Fits All Brands of 5th Gen Coilovers

Pedders 5th Gen Camaro Dual Bearing Camber Plates with an 18mm Thick Main Plate are configured with a banded thrust bearing for coil rotation when turning and a large monoball for strut articulation. Pressed into the upper aluminum spring perch is a banded sealed thrust bearing. The thrust bearing replaces the OE strut bearing and delivers silky smooth operation.

A large monoball allows the strut to articulate without bind. This precision assembly delivers an additional 1.9 degrees of negative camber. Each mark on the camber plate is .25 degrees of adjustment. Combine the adjustment of Pedders Dual Bearing Camaro Camber Plates with the OE knuckle / clevis camber adjustment to achieve more than -4 of camber on demand. As a side benefit, the Steering Angle Inclination (SAI) improves as more camber was added from the plates.

IN-STOCK for IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT!

OEM Articulation



Pedders Dual Bearing Camber Plate Articulation

[Bosse'sBoss]

Pete,
I think that Pedders did a Home run by fitting the Camaro with 305/30ZR19 tires. Did you also tried the 19X11 fronts and 19X11.5 rears wheels setup like on the '14 Z28? (I see that you went with 19X10.5 on your project car).

Can it be possible to go with those tires, upgrade sway bars, but just to go with new springs, and use the stock shocks (without going the coil over way), just to save some $. Do you think that it might improve the handling on the track?.

[JusticePete]

Forgeline can now fit 19x11s all around. I prefer the true square to the semi square Z/28.

You can run the 305 setup with stock springs and shocks because the unsprung weight is reduced. You do get better results with the higher spring rates available if you go coilovers.

The HUGE benefit is a dramatic reduction in understeer from just the wheels and tires. Sways, bushes and coils are all plus add ons.