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Old 12-26-2009, 04:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bballr4567 View Post
Mobil 1 also fits into that group. They are only synthetics in the US and NO WHERE else in the world.

Mobil 1 is the factory fill because Mobil 1 pays GM the most.
Where did you find that Mobile 1 is not a true Synthetic oil? I can't find anything like that...

I did find on the Mobil Canada website that many places sells Mobil 1 Synthetic in Canada

Quote:
Where can I find Mobil 1 with SuperSyn in Canada?


Mobil 1 with SuperSyn is available at a wide range of retail locations, including mass merchants, membership clubs, auto-parts stores, Esso service stations and Esso Associates. Many quick-lube shops and car dealerships also carry Mobil 1 with SuperSyn and will install it for you. Mobil 1 with SuperSyn is also available at Canadian Tire, Wal-Mart, Loblaws Superstore, Home Hardware, TruServ, Mr. Lube, Central Auto Parts, Uniselect and UAP/NAPA and other locations.


I did find this website that has alot of myths about Oils and Oil Changes...

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Introduction
Here is an exerpt about Synthetics.

Quote:
Synthetic Oil

Advantages of Synthetic
Synthetic oil was originally developed for high performance racing engines. Mobil tried to popularize synthetic oil for passenger vehicles back in the early 1970's. At the time, Mobil was promoting 20K or 25K oil changes with synthetic, but they soon backed down from this. Synthetic oil is a good choice if you have a vehicle with a high performance engine (in fact synthetic is required for many of these engines). It is also a good choice if your vehicle is operated in extremely cold climates. It has higher resistance to breakdown caused by heat and it flows better in extreme cold. Unfortunately for the synthetic oil industry there is virtually no advantage to using synthetic oil in a non-high performance engine that is operated in moderate climates. You probably could go a bit longer between oil changes with a synthetic, i.e. following the normal service schedule even if you fall into the severe service category, but I wouldn't advise this. In short, synthetic may give you the peace of mind of knowing that you are using an oil that is far better than necessary for your vehicle, but it won't reduce wear or extend the life of the engine. The mistake some people make it to wrongly extrapolate these benefits onto normal engines operated in mild climates, with the ultimate lack of any knowledge being manifested with statements such as "synthetics provide 'Peace of Mind,' or 'Cheap Insurance,'" or other such nonsense.

Extended Change Intervals
Most manufacturers of synthetic oil advise users to not exceed the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval. Part of this is self interest (they don't want to be liable for any damage) but the real reason is that synthetic oil, while it does have certain advantages, still becomes contaminated.

Be extremely wary of synthetic oil companies that offer to pay for your repairs if it is determined that their oil and their extended change interval recommendation caused the problem. Think for a moment of the incredible hassle you would have to go through to prove responsibility for an engine problem. Who would pay your legal bills? Who would pay for replacement transportation during the battle? The more bizarre the warranty the poorer the product is a good rule of thumb.

API Certification, Phosphorus & ZDDP
Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters.

Amsoil
Amsoil actually makes some very good products. The negative image of Amsoil is due to their distribution method (MLM) and their marketing approach. If Amsoil products were competitively priced with Mobil 1 and other synthetics, and if I could buy them in a store, I would not hesitate to use their XL-7500 synthetic as opposed to Mobil 1. What upsets me about Amsoil is that they didn't disclose until recently (and then it was by accident) the real reason that their oils (except for XL-7500) are not API certified. In the past they came up with all sorts of bizarre excuses about the reason for their lack of API certification and this greatly contributed to the distrust that people have of the company.

Summary

1. Don't fall for the 3000 mile myth or the dark oil myth

2. Follow the manufacturer's recommended change interval for severe service or have an oil analysis performed to see if you can use the normal service interval

3. If you do the oil changes yourself then buy the oil and filters near the date of the oil change and keep a maintenance log with receipts

4. Use an API certified 5W30 or 10W30 oil (whatever your manual says is preferred) and watch out for oil change places that force 10W30 on you

5. Don't use oil additives

6. If you really want to know the optimum time to change your oil than have oil analyses performed

7. Use the manufacturer filter or a quality after-market filter (don't go by brand name recognition!)

8. Synthetic oil is a good choice if you have a high performance engine or if you live in an extremely cold climate, otherwise it provides no benefit (but no harm either).

9. Avoid engine flushes

10. Check your oil
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Last edited by Angrybird 12; 12-26-2009 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTS View Post
How can it be that some additive manufacturer can have a miracle, cure-all additive without knowing the chemistry of the oil it will be used in? The answer is, they don't. They are masters at marketing, not science chemistry and engineering.

Anecdotal evidence based solely on the experiences of individual consumers and testimonials reporting specific performance attributes in the absence of reliable independent evidence showing performance capability is insufficient to support product claims.

All of these products are just psychological placebos. Simply use a good quality oil, it will have all the additives your engine needs, mixed right in. Oil additives only serve to lessen the effectiveness of your oil's additives and lubrication properties.

The Bottom Line Don't use any oil additives whatsoever, NONE of them are effective and many are damaging. Simply use a good quality oil, its got all the additives you need
If your oil is good, then your car will run just fine. If you have to add stuff to it, then pick another oil. Additives are bad. Keep it simple.
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Old 12-26-2009, 06:45 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
If your oil is good, then your car will run just fine. If you have to add stuff to it, then pick another oil. Additives are bad. Keep it simple.
well that's one opinion, not scientifically based, each to their own. Just because you think it is so doesn't make it so
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Old 12-26-2009, 07:02 PM   #32
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I'm learning a lot from this thread.
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Old 12-26-2009, 07:45 PM   #33
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Old 12-26-2009, 07:48 PM   #34
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:38 PM   #35
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Zmax was sued for fraud. Check out this link at the FTC.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/02/zmax1.shtm
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Old 12-27-2009, 01:06 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Skyman 08 View Post
Where did you find that Mobile 1 is not a true Synthetic oil? I can't find anything like that...
It cant be called a FULL synthetic. I left that out on accident.

Anywhere else in the world if the oil uses a Group III base stock (basically natural petroleum based) then it cant be called fully synthetic. Group IV is ACTUALLY fully synthetic and there are very few oils out there today that is.

Regardless, Mobil 1 went to court to retain the right to call it a full syn in the US. They won so the name stayed when they switched to Group III in 02-03 (dont really remember the exact date they changed) so that they could make more money off their oil while keeping the price for the consumer the same.
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:16 AM   #37
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Heres is some good information on AMSOIL thier oil is API certified and meets GM 4718M standards. This is just their top of the line oil they have 5W30 as well and yes for those of you that are going to be asking I am a dealer of it. I was a customer for the longest time before I became a dealer and it is not my bread maker I mostly became a dealer as it was cheaper for me. I use it in 5 personal vehicles right now along with the boats and four wheelers and even lawn equipment. All I can say is do some research on your own.

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is the industry benchmark in lubrication technology. Engineered with the world’s finest synthetic base oils and high performance additives, AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 is designed for those who demand the absolute best in motor oil performance. The exclusive “extended drain” formulation delivers superior engine protection and maximum fuel economy. AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 is a premium grade synthetic motor oil that exceeds the requirements of modern, high-performance engines and older engines. It replaces other 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 motor oils and consistently outperforms competitive conventional and synthetic motor oils.

AMSOIL, the leader in automotive synthetic lubrication, produced the world’s first API qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972. Trust the extensive experience of AMSOIL The First in SyntheticsŪ to do the best job protecting your engine.

Extends Drain Intervals
AMSOIL Signature 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil lasts much longer in service than conventional oils. Its unique synthetic formulation and long drain additive system resist oxidation and neutralize the acids that shorten the service life of other oils. AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 delivers the best possible engine protection, cleanliness and performance over extended drain intervals, reducing vehicle maintenance and waste oil disposal costs.

Maximizes Fuel Efficiency
The lightweight molecular structure of AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil reduces energy loss from the “drag” common to high viscosity oils. It is fortified with additives that enhance its friction-reducing properties to help further improve fuel efficiency.

Reduces Wear
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil contains specialized anti-wear technology. Its durable, high temperature film strength effectively separates metal surfaces to reduce wear even under the most grueling conditions. Tests prove that AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 provides better protection against wear than other motor oils (see graph). AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 helps engines last longer.



Resists Heat, Reduces Oil Consumption and Emissions
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is thermally stable with a strong resistance to high temperature volatility (burn-off). It is heavily fortified with detergent and dispersant additives designed to prevent sludge deposits and keep engines clean. Low volatility and clean operation reduce oil consumption and emissions.

Provides Outstanding Cold Flow Properties
Unlike conventional oils, AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 contains no wax. Its exceptional -60°F cold flow properties ease starting and reduce bearing wear.

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for use in gasoline engines, diesel engines (API CF, ACEA B5) and other applications requiring SAE 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30 with the following worldwide specifications:

• API SM/CF, SL, SJ …
• ILSAC GF-4, 3 …
• ACEA A5/B5-04
• GM 4718M, 6094M
• Ford WSS-M2C929-A
• Honda HTO-06
• Daimler Chrysler MS-6395N
• VW 503.00

Mixing AMSOIL
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 is compatible with conventional and synthetic motor oils. Mixing AMSOIL motor oils with other oils, however, will shorten the oil life expectancy and reduce the performance benefits. AMSOIL does not support extended drain intervals where oils have been mixed.

Aftermarket oil additives are not recommended for use with AMSOIL motor oils.

Service Life
AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) gasoline fueled vehicles as follows:

• Normal Service(3) – Up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Severe Service(4) – Up to 17,500 miles or one year, whichever comes first.
• Replace AMSOIL Ea oil filter at the time of oil change up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first (other brands at standard OEM* intervals).
• In all non-gasoline fueled vehicle applications, extend the oil change interval according to oil analysis or follow the OEM* drain interval.

*OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer

(1) Engines operating under modified conditions are excluded from extended drain recommendations. Examples include the use of performance computer chips; non-OEM approved exhaust, fuel or air induction systems; and the use of fuels other than those recommended for normal operation by the manufacturer.

(2) Mechanically sound engines are in good working condition and do not, for example, leak oil or consume excessive amounts, are not worn out, do not overheat, do not leak anti-freeze and have properly working emission control systems. AMSOIL recommends repairing malfunctioning engines prior to the installation of AMSOIL synthetic oils.

(3) Personal vehicles frequently traveling greater than 10 miles (16km) at a time and not operating under severe service.

(4) Turbo or supercharged vehicles, commercial or fleet vehicles, extensive engine idling, first and subsequent use of AMSOIL in vehicles with over 100,000 miles, daily short trip driving less than 10 miles (16km), frequent towing, plowing, hauling or dusty condition driving.

AMSOIL Ea full-flow oil filters are designed for extended drain intervals. They stop smaller particles, flow more oil and last longer than regular filters. For best performance, use AMSOIL Ea full-flow oil filters.

HEALTH & SAFETY
This product is not expected to cause health concerns when used for the intended application and according to the recommendations in the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). An MSDS is available upon request at 715-392-7101 or on our website. Keep out of the reach of children. Don't pollute. Return used oil to collection centers.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:18 AM   #38
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Man this was some good night time snooze reading, lots of info here. I'm real tired now thanks. By the way I threw that mineral oil in along with the gas treatment.Was getiing 15-city 19 highway. Mineral oil gets me 19-20 city 22 highway. Good night,this sucker needs to sleep some!
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Old 12-27-2009, 10:22 AM   #39
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Also, if you can get a 0W30 then get it! Especially during winter as it only provides more cold start protection.
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:04 AM   #40
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Well, I use Royal Purple. I also still use Z-Max. Let's see in oh ten years who has more out of pocket engine expenses. Bet I win. Many people have knee-jerk reactions. Mine are based on pure science and testing. Yes extensive testing. For a few dollars, more horsepower, lower friction, longer engine life, better gas mileage. I will continue spending a little more for a lot of benefits.
I have 465k on 3 LS1 engines with Mobil1 or Pennzoil Platinum and a Wix, Mobil1 or K&N filter. None burn ANY oil, have a significant compression issue and still get 22-24 mpg.

I have never used ANY additives. I change my oil at 8-9k and occasionally have my oil analyzed through Blackstone. Preventive and scheduled maintenance is the key.

Point?

Here come the AVON and Mary Kay ladies....

The Blur is right on...You do NOT need to use an oil additive with a new 2010 Camaro SS.

To further...

You do not need to use an oil or fuel additive on any new car that you use top tier fuel or oil. If the car has 120k on the odometer, clean the MAF, TPS, fog the intake, Seafoam the upper cylinder and valves.

Again...if you used top tier products to begin with, you will likely NEVER have any issues down the road.
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Last edited by Banshee; 12-27-2009 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:26 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by mmbarberoilman View Post
Zmax was sued for fraud. Check out this link at the FTC.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2001/02/zmax1.shtm
Here is a list of everyone who won or lost against the FTC. Notice this dates back to 2001.

http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html
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Old 12-27-2009, 11:35 AM   #42
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Top Tier all the way and you won't need additives and will have the best performance and longest usage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banshee View Post
I have 465k on 3 LS1 engines with Mobil1 or Pennzoil Platinum and a Wix, Mobil1 or K&N filter. None burn ANY oil, have a significant compression issue and still get 22-24 mpg.

I have never used ANY additives. I change my oil at 8-9k and occasionally have my oil analyzed through Blackstone. Preventive and scheduled maintenance is the key.

Point?

Here come the AVON and Mary Kay ladies....

The Blur is right on...You do NOT need to use an oil additive with a new 2010 Camaro SS.

To further...

You do not need to use an oil or fuel additive on any new car that you use top tier fuel or oil. If the car has 120k on the odometer, clean the MAF, TPS, fog the intake, Seafoam the upper cylinder and valves.

Again...if you used top tier products to begin with, you will likely NEVER have any issues down the road.
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