ZL-1 Insecurity issues

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Fiveg56

Sounds like SS insecurity to me.

Honestly - I started thinking that, but quickly tried to give the benefit of the doubt.

PLEASE - let's not let this thread turn into a thread about that though. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know and really consider the topic

[hognutz]

if you take 580 * .85 you get 493 that would be worst case really I would think. I don't think the manuals will have 15% loss.

Nobody talkes RWHP becaue nobody has one yet.

a better question is why would you really really think dyno numbers are so awesome. Dyno measure output at 0mph and takes no drving skill into acount. Et's, lap times, etc are a true measure of what you and your car do.

In my mind SAE vs Dyno is pretty much the same measurment on a different scale. once you mod the car you are not going to pay for an SAE test though. Manufactueres are nevery going to rate on dyno's becasue the test variation are greater than an SAE rating.

[Inferno Orange 2SS-RS]

Once the ZL1 is out and peolpe have it dyno'd then we will start hearing RWHP numbers. 580 hp is not a bad spot to start modding from to get even more HP

[Pgoldston]

Originally Posted by actireman

I own a Mustang MD2000 chassis dyno that is eddy current. We dyno all the time to tune cars. The big thing that people don't realize is that all these big numbers come from an inertia dyno. An inertia dyno will give almost 75 more horse power than ours and also how the driver drives the car on the dyno makes a big difference. We are tuners so we don't care if the numbers were between 1 and 10, all we car is did the engine like it and go up or did it not and go down. I'm sure there are guys out there that have big numbers on an eddy current dyno, but I'm sure the vast majority don't. So I guess what I'm saying is that all these big numbers don't impress me at all.

EXACTLY!!!! So many people think RWHP is the end all which it is not especially considering different dynos being used as well as tactics and corrections. The reality is that the DYNO is a TOOL to be used to better the car the same as any other tool. I dont care if the ZL1 put down 500 or 450 on the dyno as long as it does it consistantly and I can make safe increases then Im happy. As well Take a corrected dyno jet reading that has its AIT sensor near something hot, versus a mustang dyno with the AIT sensor in the right locate and if the numbers are near the same, the dynojet user is going to get thier feelings hurt at the track!!

So to the OP FWHP numbers or RWHP numbers are only good for chest pumping and pissing contest.

[motorhead]

There is not one mainstream car manufacturer that uses rear wheel HP to certify a car's power so why would we even consider it. I don't put a lot of stock in after market dyno numbers because there are so many things that can influence the outcome. It's a great tool to see if a mod made an improvement but the real talking will be done on the track.

It's very impressive for a car company to produce a certified 580HP motor for under sixty grand that handles like it's on rails too.

[brucedd]

Originally Posted by alex70olds

Another "mine is bigger than yours" thread? Geeeeeez just look at the title. Fail.

Oh come on, he did say in no way was he disrespecting the ZL1...

[Lonny Doyle]

1500 miles after I receive my ZL1 I will Dyno it and list the numbers. It would be cool if several people from all over will do the same.

I worked for Wells Racing Engines for about 15 years, we have a Superflow engine Dyno and an in ground Superflow Chassis Dyno.

For actual horse power numbers the engine dyno is more comparable from one dyno to another. You use a calibrated weight on a torque arm for set up. We control the temperature and humidity of the air and also adjust for the barometric pressure.

We could bring in an engine and rebuild it and re-dyno it and the graph would almost lay right back on top of the lines from a previous session.

Chassis dynos can be quite random from one to another.

We have a lot of good data from first running an engine on the engine dyno and then testing in a car. We should be able to get a good idea of what the the actual horse power is at the crank by comparing it to similar data from previous tests.

Hopefully it will happen soon.

ZL1 #163

[detltu]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Because 580hp is what the motor produces according to GM. Just like the SS produces 426/400 according to GM. The aftermarket world rates at rear wheel because that's the easiest way to test without taking the motor out and testing only that. This tread would lead me to think that your the one the has insecurity issues.

+1

Once they start hitting the streets we will know the rear wheel horsepower numbers, until then I don't know what the OP wants people to quote. We probably shouldn't quote rwhp though because what good is all of that power if you can't put it down? We should only quote 1/4 mile times. But what good is straight line power if the car can't handle turns? We should quote autocross times. But that places too much emphasis on handling and not enough on power, so we should quote our official times at VIR.

VIR is good, but the Ring takes everything into account, so from now on unless you are insecure you will only refer to the performance of your vehicle if you have officially taken the car to the nurburgring and timed a lap. Those will be the only recognized measurement of performance on Camaro5.com and if anyone uses anything else, we will instantly recognize that they are a troll and are obviously insecure about their horrible physical abnormality.

Or we could just continue to quote whatever performance measurment we have available and leave it up to the reader to jump to silly conclusions about why we chose the particular measurement we did.

Gotta love message boards. No disrespect to the OP of course.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by Lonny Doyle

1500 miles after I receive my ZL1 I will Dyno it and list the numbers. It would be cool if several people from all over will do the same.

I worked for Wells Racing Engines for about 15 years, we have a Superflow engine Dyno and an in ground Superflow Chassis Dyno.

For actual horse power numbers the engine dyno is more comparable from one dyno to another. You use a calibrated weight on a torque arm for set up. We control the temperature and humidity of the air and also adjust for the barometric pressure.

We could bring in an engine and rebuild it and re-dyno it and the graph would almost lay right back on top of the lines from a previous session.

Chassis dynos can be quite random from one to another.

We have a lot of good data from first running an engine on the engine dyno and then testing in a car. We should be able to get a good idea of what the the actual horse power is at the crank by comparing it to similar data from previous tests.

Hopefully it will happen soon.

ZL1 #163

awesome post

[IcePick06]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Because 580hp is what the motor produces according to GM. Just like the SS produces 426/400 according to GM. The aftermarket world rates at rear wheel because that's the easiest way to test without taking the motor out and testing only that. This tread would lead me to think that your the one the has insecurity issues.

[ZO6 Bryan]

Originally Posted by radz28

A 2012 bone-stock CTS-V put down almost 520 RWHP on ADM's dyno recently. It's not yet known if it was a plane freak, or what, because the average in the past was from 30-40 RWHP less, in similar trim. If there's any indication of what power ZL1 might have, it could be this car.

Personally - I don't really buy it. I'm expecting ZL1 to be between 500-520, but the more the better

Additionally - I don't really understand the point of this thread. I, too, value RWHP vs FWHP, but I don't know why it really matters. GM uses SAE ratings, so I'm not sure what we're talking about here...

I also have a freind with a 2011 CTS-V. On a dynojet his pulled 518 bone stock. So I expect my ZL1 will make that or better. FWIW the CTS-V is 550HP at crank. 30 hp less than ZL1.

[v6sonoma]

I think it's importance to people is the warranty that comes with it. Especially since they will cover damage caused on the track. No aftermarket part can offer that security for those who want to play but can't afford to pay.

[flyinlow]

Originally Posted by v6sonoma

I think it's importance to people is the warranty that comes with it. Especially since they will cover damage caused on the track. No aftermarket part can offer that security for those who want to play but can't afford to pay.

Careful, they won't cover damage CAUSED on the track. You run over something and break something, they won't cover that. If you're running at the track and develop a leak or something similar, that would be covered. But if you over rev the engine and blow it up, that won't be covered. Warranty does not cover carelessness or operating the vehicle in a manner for which it is not designed to do. Read your warranty carefully.

I just want to make sure people understand that running the car on the track is one thing, but damages caused by external things typically won't be covered.

[2012ZL1]

If I'm not mistaken the ZL1 is the ONLY production car covered by warranty on the track by the manufacturer.
Quite a bold step and a testament to the engineering and confidence in the car.
Probably also why the delay in releasing the cars. They must be 100 percent right, because GM knows how some of these cars will be driven to the edge.