Not really happy with SJM so far

[Supercharged SS]

I just want to be 100% honest with my experience with SJM and my custom Bogart wheels so that they, (SJM), and the community can learn from what I've been dealing with. It all started out with the car overpowering the drag radial set-up that I started out with. So Ted suggested that the first thing we do instead of making more power was use all the power that was available first and that meant getting it to the ground. After spending $1300 on the dr's I really didn't want to spend another 2k on wheels and tires but I what choic do I have . The car wasn't going to go any faster without them. I contacted SJM and spoke to them about a set of 17's, I didn't care to swap brakes so no 16's for me Steve was extremely responsive and his return communication was excellent.My biggest hold up was the time it took to make them. I stop going to the track right around now and don't start going back until the fall. He promised me that they would be done by May 7th and they were. Here's were the problems start. Thorugh our entire conversation I kept saying that shipping from PA to CT would only take two days at the most, and Steve kept agreeing. I must have mentioned that a half dozen times. Never once was I corrected so I assumed that I was right. Then when I got the tracking number I saw that they were comming from AZ and it was going to take a week. Ok, mistakes happen and we missed our track rental scheduled for today. Not the end of the world, until problem number two. I was planning on going up tomorrow for a t & t.

The wheels got dropped off this am and the first thing Steve said to do was check the fitment. So I go ahead and pop them on and all is good, tight tolerances, but everything clears until I try and get a stock lugnut on. Now mind you on my invoive it clearly states that:

Designed for original stock brakes/pads/rotors
BP=5x120mm
Designed for stock lugs/studs.

Customer Retainer Payment retainer on purchase.

Needless to say I wasn't happy. I immediately called Steve and he said "oh no, designed for stock studs not nuts". As I asked him if he needed my invoice to see what I was working with he then said "oh yeah I heard of someone else having that problem". The base of the stock lugs is to fat to fit in the shaft where they are supposed to go. WTF! So now I have 2k in tires and wheels that I can't use. His concern was more about what my opinion of the wheels rather than what he could do to rectify the problem. But he did tell me that he had the lugs there and they were $1.50 each. So by next Tuesday I could get them from him. Thats just great. Jannetty will have them on Monday. We searched all day for splined nuts and had no success. Long story short I feel for the price that we pay for "custom wheels" that have been out for quite a while, we should have to be getting stuck like this. In the least I feel that Steve should have at least offered to send me the 10 lugs that I need, but thats not the case. It just would have been a nice jesture and the right way to run a business. At least thats how I run my companies.

I don't want to come across as bashing SJM or Steve, even though that how it appears. This is just what happened. Steve hasd been great to deal with and I'm sure that the wheels will be great, they sure are light. I just want you guys to know what to check for if you end up going this route so your outings don't get ruined.

My suggestion to Steve and SJM would be to just include the needed lug nuts with the wheels and add them to the price accordingly so no one else runs into this problem. At $1.50 each I don't think anyone would bitch about an extra $15 to be assured that they can actually bolt them on.

But I do have to say that I am looking forward to using my new setup!!

[Orange5thGen]

They look great, sorry they didn't send the correct lugs, they will get it right!

[ron10]

they do look nice,but you are right about the lug nuts.when i purchased my spare tire off ebay,they sent me everything i needed to change it,including lug nuts because the stock nuts won't work.

[Mike TexaSS]

[SJM]

Thank you for your feedback. I’m a bit taken back regarding some of your comments as I have been detailed with you and kept you in the build progress throughout. We have been in constant email communication as well as numerous phone calls. Service and end product… making sure our customers are left feeling satisfied is very important. Unfortunately, this was not the case for you.

I'd like to clarify a bit as it appears you may have been mistaken regarding some of our discussions. The wheels are designed for stock 14mm tapered lugs. Every customer’s setup used the stock 14mm tapered lugs including our test setups (with one exception which I will discuss). I don’t want to turn a positive discussion into an argument. I was planning to call you on Monday as a follow up call to make sure everything went well. I happen to read your post this evening thus why my response.

The written invoice: The last phone conversation when I first picked up the phone and greeted you, I was under the assumption the wheel setup you were asking about was an older Camaro which uses shank style lugs. After 10 seconds of the discussion where you asked me to look at the invoice, I stated to you, "Sorry...I thought we were talking about an older Camaro, the invoice was correct, and the wheels are built for the stock 14mm tapered lugs.

We've built many 2010 Camaro wheels without issues. Our customers are using the stock lugs. We did have one other customer recently which had the same problem regarding lug nuts whereas I mentioned to you that we weren't sure if they changed them to an aftermarket lug. Other than that one, every customer’s setup used their stock lugs. Apparently, one or more of the Camaro wheel packages (which I discussed with you) must be using a different sized lug nut hex head. This was why you ran into this issue…of which we did not expect.

I did offer you lug nuts; you declined stating you needed them in 4 hours. Obviously there was no way I could meet that time-frame. I'm shocked that you stated I did not offer to send you lug nuts. It's apparent that I offered them to you as you commented the cost in your next sentence. You mentioned you were going to pick them up locally. This should have been an easy solution. If your local shop didn’t have them, I’d assume most dealers would stock the lugs. They are standard 14mm lugs using a small hex head. With your particular wheel package, they apparently come with larger hex heads…in your particular case, pickup the lugs from one of the other 2010 Camaro wheel package and/or other vehicles.

Hindsight is 20/20, if I knew there were a variety of hex-sized lug-nuts sent with the 2010 Camaro wheels, I would have offered to you lug nuts at the time of purchase. All of the other customers (with the exception of one) as I mentioned did in fact use their stock lugs. This same went for the first setup that we built which images are on the forum somewhere. The car is new, as time progresses, we as well as other manufactures find exceptions to the rules. I’m interested to know about the new replacement brake pads being offered and how they will affect us as well as other wheel manufactures setups.

After our conversation, I've been looking at our other 2010 Camaro builds and letting our customers know they need to measure whether they have small or large hex lug nuts. If they have to use a larger socket head (you mentioned yours was 21mm) then we need to either supply the lug nuts or they can purchase a set locally. I would assume most Chevy dealers stock 14mm lugs...this may have been an easy solution in your particular case.

As a final thought, I did ask your opinion of the wheels and if you were satisfied with the quality of the product. I did not ask you this to pat myself on the back. I DO want to hear opinions and feedback from customers. I wanted to make sure that you had not other concerns and that with the exception of the lugs were satisfied. That is the only way we can are assured we are meeting our customers’ needs. I felt that after our conversation on Friday afternoon everything was fine. Apparently after reading on Saturday, this was not the case.

At this point in time of writing, I’m not sure if you picked up lug nuts at your local dealer. If you do not wish to do so, let me know and as I mentioned before, we can offer them to you. I would hope that if you consider purchasing front drag wheels, you give SJM/ Bogart family another opportunity to make things right. I can assure you that you will receive lug nuts with your new wheels as your particular wheel package uses larger hex lugs...something that did not come into light until our discussion after receiving the wheels.

[Nine Ball]

I've known Steve at SJM for several years now. He is a stand-up guy, always has taken care of people in the Camaro/Firebird communities.

Factory lug nuts are garbage. They are huge by huge in size, and weigh more than most aftermarket lug nuts. Not sure this thread was called for, in light of the minor issue here.

[Supercharged SS]

Again, the invoice cleary states STOCK lugs and studs. To me that means the lug nuts that I have on my car. I will be happy to post the copy of my invoice. It is my opinion that for the money that I spent on these I should not have had this problem. These details should have been worked out on your end. If you had an inclination that another lug was needed they should have been included or at least brought to my attention.

If I have you on my table doing open heart surgery and I see that something else, that I didn't expect, should be done, I just do it and explain later. If you knew about the lug problem, the slighteset problem, just address it and be covered.

I was not able to find the lugs locally and thus not able to get to the track. Even Ted at Jannetty's had both his guys search for an hour for me. But they are bringing them in. And yes, you did offer me lugs, at a $1.50 each. I was offended. They should have been in the mail at your cost after this incident, but thats just my opinion.

As for the wheels. Like I told you they look great and are super light but How do they work....I can't answer that yet.

My car had the old brake pads so the wheele went out without a problem.

I simply posted my thread to show my experience my buying from SJM. Not to crap on the company. We all know stuff happens and that fine. I didn't want to start a fight, just explain my situation. Steve, has been great to deal with. His communication has been the best I have ever had. He was even returning emails from his house at midnight. I'm glad that I chose SJM to get my wheels. And I will certainly be getting my fronts from him too!!


This issue to me was not minor. The purpose of this thread was to detail my experience with buying wheels from SJM. Plain and simple.

[Scrappy Doo]

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

Again, the invoice cleary states STOCK lugs and studs. To me that means the lug nuts that I have on my car. I will be happy to post the copy of my invoice. It is my opinion that for the money that I spent on these I should not have had this problem. These details should have been worked out on your end. If you had an inclination that another lug was needed they should have been included or at least brought to my attention.

If I have you on my table doing open heart surgery and I see that something else, that I didn't expect, should be done, I just do it and explain later. If you knew about the lug problem, the slighteset problem, just address it and be covered.

I was not able to find the lugs locally and thus not able to get to the track. Even Ted at Jannetty's had both his guys search for an hour for me. But they are bringing them in. And yes, you did offer me lugs, at a $1.50 each. I was offended. They should have been in the mail at your cost after this incident, but thats just my opinion.

As for the wheels. Like I told you they look great and are super light but How do they work....I can't answer that yet.

My car had the old brake pads so the wheele went out without a problem.

I simply posted my thread to show my experience my buying from SJM. Not to crap on the company. We all know stuff happens and that fine. I didn't want to start a fight, just explain my situation. Steve, has been great to deal with. His communication has been the best I have ever had. He was even returning emails from his house at midnight. I'm glad that I chose SJM to get my wheels. And I will certainly be getting my fronts from him too!!


This issue to me was not minor. The purpose of this thread was to detail my experience with buying wheels from SJM. Plain and simple.

Agree 100%. For 2 grand, they should throw in $15 worth of nuts. Nice wheels though.

[PQ]

Wow. Glad I have more patience. Maybe a little more behind the scene show of irritation. The Camaro has lug stems that are not usually found on a 2 door car which is why you couldn't find any splined 14mm. That's what happend to me. Of course Nine Ball had told me the sizes and lugs I needed previously. I just made the mistake of thinking I could run out and just get some at the last minute.

I kept everyone in the loop at what was happening to me but to start a thread with the FULL intention of throwing someone staight under the bus is a little uncalled for imo.

You're gonna wish you didn't start this thread after you cool down. Keeping everyone informed as to make sure they don't fall in the same situation is one thing but I'm a little suprised here.

I simply posted my thread to show my experience my buying from SJM. Not to crap on the company. We all know stuff happens and that fine.

Sure didn't come off that way. The title of this thread and the above quote are a little contradictory.

[danhr]

I honestly think you are trying to have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. Even though it is a consumer's market, you have to put yourself in steve's shoes for a moment.

These are still CUSTOM BUILT wheels. How is he suppose to know there are different lug nuts offered for these cars? He is custom building a wheel that is not infront of him. He is using previous cars that were at his shop as a guide to make yours. Is it crappy that the lug nut issue happened? Yes. Of course. But when you are one of the first people to get a certain part, things like this happen. If you aren't satisfied with it, you can either do the r&d yourself, or get yourself a platform with more aftermarket support.

You mentioned before that he would get you your wheels earlier, than the typical customer. As you wanted them for this race season. He went through hoops there, and even if he did send you out lug nuts the next day, you still would of got your wheels/lug nuts before the typical turn around time.

As for the "for 2000 wheels, you should get $15 in lug nuts for free" comment. It is a business. The business has costs. Did you know the material that these wheels are made out of has gone up? Did you know that it is getting harder and harder to get said material? Do you see SJM's prices going up accordingly? No. You are complaining about spending a few bucks, when he is still saving you more money in hidden expenses, that you do not see on your invoice.

[Supercharged SS]

Here's the bottom line...its mine opinion...you can agree or not...makes no difference to me. I bought a set of $1500 wheels that I can't use becasue I wasn't informed that I needed a differnt lug nut. If they are so custom I should have been aware of any changes that needed to be made on my end. I was told the stock lugs would work. Like I stated I have that in print Thats it, those are the facts and the are indisputeable. There is no need to cool down. I'm not overly upset. Just felt that things could have been handled better. Whats done is done and Jannetty has cleaned up the mess. The title of this thread and clear and cuts to the point. I am not really pleased with the way my experience with SJM has been. Thats it. Quite simply and to the point. I would expect that the wheels will work great when I get to use them. At that point I will glady make another post stating what a nice wheel they offer and point out the benfits of the 17" over the 18" etc. You get the point. I never complained about paying for the lug nuts. I actually am paying more from Ted. I simply stated that it would have been good business practice to say, hey..sorry about the lugs, I have some comming your way. Thats his choice. I am not going to tell him that he has to do that. I don't mind getting what I need. I don't think that this is throwing anyone under the bus. All that was stated was 100% true and my personal opinion. I think that some of you guys may be over reacting but you are certainly entitled to those thoughts. I do like the fact that there are some on the side of Steve. Thats good to see. In the end I will have the correct lugs and the wheels will no doubt make a signigigant improvement in the performance of my car. And thats the bottom line.

[Nine Ball]

You are not complaining about paying for lug nuts, but you expect him to give you them free? Since you keep bringing up the invoice that obviously is incorrect as your backup, where on your invoice does it say he would give you free lug nuts with purchase?

I think it would have been more polite/professional to have handled this issue privately with SJM, instead of creating a drama fest about lug nuts. A little understanding would have gone a long way.

My opinion? Please never contact me for wheels, I'd rather not have a customer like you!

[Supercharged SS]

Obviously you have missed the point. Don't sweat it, I don't plan on buying anything from you. Good business practice, not that you know about this with your last comment, would be to say, hey, sorry about the lugs, I'll take care of it. Thats the company's choice, only my opinion. Take it for what its worth. Gd luck.

[markssylver]

i have the sjm wheels and they do fit with my stock lug nuts and also the stock lugs off my 2500hd p/u its a tight fit with a chrome thinwall socket but they do fit and they are the ones i believe are a 22 mm head what i ended up doing was going to the dealer and getting some plain 14mm lugs for a chevy truck that doesnt have the external threads for the centercaps since changing my wheels every week for the track was tearing up the ss covers on my stock lugs and making them get stuck in the socket