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Old 07-18-2014, 01:39 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by 87GNX View Post
I agree on the torque, but d.i should be available in 2016. I dont see ford doing anything till they have to. That's just the way Ford operates.

Sure it is, because they lead and GM follows. So why show all your cards in your first play? This new car will be better than the outgoing...just. Then the new Camaro will be better...just. Then Ford will drop a bomb. And GM will eventually respond by going nuclear. Isn't how they've played together most of the time?
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:05 AM   #184
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If the numbers arent too much underrated, I say this mustang will be a tiny bit slower at the track because of the IRS and added weight. But it will be a beast on the road course!

They still have time to react to the LT1 Camaro. GM will be 2nd on the hp war SS vs GT, unless the 6th gen is lighter by a good amount.
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:48 AM   #185
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I think they said the Ecoboost would have more HP. But they didn't say that they were going to purposely take away power from the v6! Lmao..... come-on Ford .... really ..
I think Ford is just phasing out the V6...this new eco once tuned might beat a few l99's!

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Old 07-18-2014, 10:07 AM   #186
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Also lets not forget the 2016 will be on the ATS frame so may have a weight advantage. Seems to make sense to me to wait till 2016 and see which car is best
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:35 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Q'smuscle View Post
I think they said the Ecoboost would have more HP. But they didn't say that they were going to purposely take away power from the v6! Lmao..... come-on Ford .... really ..
I'm guessing the 3.7 still makes 305 but Ford will advertise it at 300 to make the EB even more appealing. This is would make much more sense than reengineering an engine just to lose 5hp. Also, while in Overboost the 2.3, like all the other EB4's, should make another 8-9% hp and tq.



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Also lets not forget the 2016 will be on the ATS frame so may have a weight advantage. Seems to make sense to me to wait till 2016 and see which car is best
Has the ATS wheel base been confirmed? I know there are pics of the camo clad gen6, and it's sitting next to an Impala. So, knowing that Impala sits on a 111.7" wlb, it shouldn't be all too difficult accurately estimating gen6 Camaro's wlb.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:43 AM   #188
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Peak numbers are fine, but what about the number under the curve? i am guessing the new 5.0 is going to have more power through the entire rev range than tjust the peak. I thing we are going to see a rather large increase in torque especially in lower RPMs. Same with the 2.3 EB. Numbers may not be that far above the V6, but I see the EB being considerably quicker because of a flatter powerband. I think this thing is going to surprise. Could be wrong, but we will see.
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:06 PM   #189
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Peak numbers are fine, but what about the number under the curve? i am guessing the new 5.0 is going to have more power through the entire rev range than tjust the peak. I thing we are going to see a rather large increase in torque especially in lower RPMs. Same with the 2.3 EB. Numbers may not be that far above the V6, but I see the EB being considerably quicker because of a flatter powerband. I think this thing is going to surprise. Could be wrong, but we will see.
The torque curve on the EB probably will not be as flat as you would think for a turbo car... Most likely the stock calibration will have the boost come on very gradual, almost linearly... almost like a centrifugal.. That's what i've seen in the 3.5 and 2.0 EBs... and once you tune it so the boost comes on more aggressively, you'll probably find out they are using a very cute little turbo that will run out of steam in the upper RPMs...

Still going to be very interesting!
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:32 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by scrming View Post
The torque curve on the EB probably will not be as flat as you would think for a turbo car... Most likely the stock calibration will have the boost come on very gradual, almost linearly... almost like a centrifugal.. That's what i've seen in the 3.5 and 2.0 EBs... and once you tune it so the boost comes on more aggressively, you'll probably find out they are using a very cute little turbo that will run out of steam in the upper RPMs...

Still going to be very interesting!
Exactly.
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:42 PM   #191
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if im forced into premium fuel, v8 or 5.0 is only way to go.. im not dd a v6 t4 on premium .. I hope Chevy doesn't do the same..
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:08 PM   #192
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if im forced into premium fuel, v8 or 5.0 is only way to go.. im not dd a v6 t4 on premium .. I hope Chevy doesn't do the same..
I would be very surprised if the 3.7 requires premium and a little surprised if the the EB2.3 does. The EB3.5 runs on regular. Did you see something official saying these two require premium?
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:13 PM   #193
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93 is listed next to max hp numbers in post 1
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:26 PM   #194
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93 is listed next to max hp numbers in post 1
I took that just as the type of fuel they used when doing the certification. I don't think that means it will be the minimum octane requirements. I doubt you will be able to overboost the EB2.3 without premium though.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:32 PM   #195
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oh ok, I always assume the worst lol..
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:52 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro View Post
And then you will also have the 4 banger mustang probably faster than the v6 Camaro...
Probably? Its a certainty. The EB Mustang will will be a mid to low 5 second 0 - 60 MPH car, and likely mid 13s at the strip. Its lighter, geared lower, and has more torque.

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except I don't think GM is in competition with fords turbo 4, since fords 4 banger is the middle variant, and GM's supposed 4 banger is the low/base model.
I agree...at least based on the sources I've read.

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I think we are seeing the death of the v6 mustang with these new numbers, which is a shame.
I think so too...was the 305 power rating of the 2014 with premium as well? I always thought that was on regular fuel. Anyways, I think Ford wants to see low V6 sales for the first year or two, and then they'll just kill it. I think that will happen too, but won't it be something if the V6 actually sells well?

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I never liked V6's in any form so I like the idea of that Turbo 4 from Ford, I am sure Chevy will soon follow suit...
I believe they will, but you will not see GM just sit on its current V6 and hope for it to die like Ford and the new Mustang. The new LGX V6 will go into the next gen, and I suspect it will be the mid-grade engine....either that, or maybe GM will make a pretty awesome move, and offer a competitive T4, and the new V6 at basically the same price, instead of making one engine an optional upgrade over the other. I believe they are doing something like that with their Buicks?

Anyways, heres hoping I get my wish and the LGX is good for 335 - 340ish HP and 290 to 300 TQ in the 6th gen. Stock for stock, will make for a good fight against the EB Mustang. The EB will have superior low end torque, but the LGX Camaro would have a faster top end, and likely trap higher in the quarter mile.

Now, tune the EB and its all over for any V6 competitor, but I'm talking stock comparisons here. Something about the V6 makes me favor it more than a T4. If the LGX comes from the factory with similar power to what I said above, it will be easily moddable for a 350ish HP. That in a car that is lighter than the 5th gen sounds so very nice to me!

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Originally Posted by scrming View Post
The torque curve on the EB probably will not be as flat as you would think for a turbo car... Most likely the stock calibration will have the boost come on very gradual, almost linearly... almost like a centrifugal.. That's what i've seen in the 3.5 and 2.0 EBs... and once you tune it so the boost comes on more aggressively, you'll probably find out they are using a very cute little turbo that will run out of steam in the upper RPMs...

Still going to be very interesting!
The EB motors are all turbo'd small and tuned for low end torque...thus the reason you see the huge amount of torque early on, and then tapers off considerably in the upper rpms. (I know you know this, but just saying for everyone else)

A larger turbo would produce huge power and TQ at peak rpms, but its not good for a daily driver which is supposed to get good gas mileage.

I think the tuned EB will be a very quick car, and give V8 owners gripes from a dig and short stop light to stop light runs. But you know someone is going to swap the small turbo for a larger one, change the pipe, and tune it and it will make huge power.
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