Compound boost - blower + turbos

[DSX_Camaro]

Actually his KPA #s are correct if you drop them by 100. At which point his psi numbers correlate. psi to kPa is not a direct conversion, so it would make sense that the english units don't increase mathematically.

This build is insane...

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by AGP Turbo

Haha, let me help you understand step one of the most basic part of this. A PD blower is a locked rotation pressure multiplier. And they only work well at low pressure multiplication. What you think of as a 7.25psi setting, start thinking as a 1.5:1 multiplier. Whatever pressure you put into it, it's going to multiply by 1.5. Down at this pressure ratio it's little pathetic intercooler can handle it, assuming the air started out at a reasonable temperature. So to reach desired boost level we just feed it desired pressure /1.5 from the turbo. The air out of the turbo was already cooled down in an air-air intercooler 90%.
So 10psi (170kpa) from the turbos x 1.5 = 23psi (255kpa)
It's actually much more complicated than this but that gives you the general idea.

So you are thinking another air to air intercooler in the grill in addition to the other 4 coolers I have up there already. (Stock 3 plus a large oil cooler)... and I'm getting the idea you want to run the supercharger throughout the Rev range.... it may be fine but my experience to this point has shown me that the supercharger makes a lot more heat above 5500 rpm. When I am road racing in hot weather I can stay on the track longer if I shift at 5200 and keep the rpms down.

Like I said in a previous post, if I end up with a better power to weight ratio I'm good with the added weight. But I'm going to need probably 1500 whp to for it to break even.

[LuckyZL-1]

This is insane! Turbo's preloading a Supercharger is gonna be freakin nuts!!! Good luck!!!

[CyberPredator]

Originally Posted by mylftft

My car is perfect the way it is, showcar looks, tons of power, ridculously drivable, stupid fast, I don't think there is another 1000+ rwhp car anywhere with better IAT's than my car. Besides all that Andy told me he'd kick me in the nuts if I tried anything like that, I don't wanna get kicked in the nuts!

What's your IATs. My car makes 1109 whp 1102 wtq and IATs on an 85 degree day is 45-50 degrees WOT.

[AGP Turbo]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

So you are thinking another air to air intercooler in the grill in addition to the other 4 coolers I have up there already. (Stock 3 plus a large oil cooler)... and I'm getting the idea you want to run the supercharger throughout the Rev range.... it may be fine but my experience to this point has shown me that the supercharger makes a lot more heat above 5500 rpm. When I am road racing in hot weather I can stay on the track longer if I shift at 5200 and keep the rpms down.

Like I said in a previous post, if I end up with a better power to weight ratio I'm good with the added weight. But I'm going to need probably 1500 whp to for it to break even.

If you want to do it, we can take care of it for you.

If your car weighs 4200lbs now at 835whp that's 5.03lbs/hp.
If you add another 150lbs, you only need to add more 30whp to be at the same ratio. Not sure what you mean about needing 1500whp to break even.

All this being said, if the car is all about high speed running and being at high RPM's all the time. Make it simple and ditch the supercharger. The point of a compound set-up like this is to spool the turbos faster and have instant power. But once in boost, turbos are much more efficient. If you don't really need the low RPM power, ditch the blower.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by LuckyZL-1

This is insane! Turbo's preloading a Supercharger is gonna be freakin nuts!!! Good luck!!!

Still milling it around but I suspect it will run a little better if I do the conversion.

Originally Posted by CyberPredator

What's your IATs. My car makes 1109 whp 1102 wtq and IATs on an 85 degree day is 45-50 degrees WOT.

I can confirm that he probably has the only car that was able to go 200 in the Texas mile without bags and bags ice or that ended up pulling timing but still had way more than enough power to get there. His induction cooling is very good at 20+ pounds of boost.

Originally Posted by AGP Turbo

If you want to do it, we can take care of it for you.

If your car weighs 4200lbs now at 835whp that's 5.03lbs/hp.
If you add another 150lbs, you only need to add more 30whp to be at the same ratio. Not sure what you mean about needing 1500whp to break even.

All this being said, if the car is all about high speed running and being at high RPM's all the time. Make it simple and ditch the supercharger. The point of a compound set-up like this is to spool the turbos faster and have instant power. But once in boost, turbos are much more efficient. If you don't really need the low RPM power, ditch the blower.

Right now my car weighs exactly 4100 lbs with the full cage 1/2 tank of gas and full nitrous bottles and full fluids including 4 gallons of supercharger coolant. I have a few bucks in weight loss parts in it..... It dynoed 835 on the motor and 1203 whp on nitrous. With the nitrous that is 3.4 pounds per horsepower. I use this figure because the straight line racing is where I need the power and in all straight line racing the nitrous is going to be turned on. So I just figured that with 200 pound weight increase on the front axle and the increased understeer in the corners I would need an overall power to weight of about 3.0 for an all around improvement on every racing venue. That comes to 1433whp and I rounded that to 1500.

The car was originally purchased for road racing and has seen many hours of road racing in 2013. That is where I learned about the supecharger heat issues. Somewhere along the way some of these 1/4 mile guys threw down some challenges and 3 clutches and 450 whp in engine and nitrous mods later I have the fastest 60 ft time for a manual car but still have not broke into the 9's.... I want to hit 200 in the mile, 9's in the quarter but I still want the car to rail when I go back to the road course which is where the car will live once I knock out the straight line speed goals. I still have a fairly stock interior in the car (no back seat) and like the comfort of a stock ZL1 interior while racing.

As you can see by my total weight, if I add something I have been successful in taking something else off or reducing the weight of a part that is not readily visible. I really don't want more weight in the front of the car because I have added a lot of stuff in the engine bay and then removed things in the back...... but all in all it is what it is. Bottom line is after I check off a few straight line racing goals the car is going to be a road racer and I already think it is a pig... but it is a damn fast pig....lol.

Do you think you could get 1500 to the tires?

[AGP Turbo]

Quite the tall order. You want to out power a nitrous set-up with a 100% duty cycle capable, more reliable FI system and all while maintaining lower IAT's on sustained pulls. It should be geared toward drag, road, mile and street racing all at once. And in a car that you can drive to church with the A/C on.
Turbo's are certainly going to get you closer to these goals than anything else.
You can have whatever WHP level you want. But understand the higher your number, the more trade offs and it starts to cost as much as a house. Maybe making a shift towards a more reliable, more sustainable 1200-1300whp is a better idea than shooting for the stars. How much more power can the rest of the parts on your car really handle with any reliability.

[Unreal]

More realistically, how much can a tire hold.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by AGP Turbo

Quite the tall order. You want to out power a nitrous set-up with a 100% duty cycle capable, more reliable FI system and all while maintaining lower IAT's on sustained pulls. It should be geared toward drag, road, mile and street racing all at once. And in a car that you can drive to church with the A/C on.
Turbo's are certainly going to get you closer to these goals than anything else.
You can have whatever WHP level you want. But understand the higher your number, the more trade offs and it starts to cost as much as a house. Maybe making a shift towards a more reliable, more sustainable 1200-1300whp is a better idea than shooting for the stars. How much more power can the rest of the parts on your car really handle with any reliability.

You seem to have a good grasp of my build goals. I have already invested a fairly substantial amount in my car to this point and still haven't got where I want it to be in terms of speed or reliability.

I don't know what the rest of the driveline can handle but I suspect if I exceed the capability of the stock parts there may be something stronger available in the aftermarket. So far engine and clutch problems are the only things I'm running into and the bar continues to rise with each subsequent replacement.

Originally Posted by Unreal

More realistically, how much can a tire hold.

I'm street driving on Toyo proxes R888's, and I don't drive this car in the rain if it can be avoided. I also used these Toyo's in the mile. If you get them up to temp and use a little discretion in first gear they hold fine with the full 1200 whp in gears 2-6. If I start blowing these off I'll switch to Hoosier A6's, I wont get many miles out of them but I know they will stick. I'm constantly amazed by people driving high power cars with tons of money in the engine and yet they won't put a good tire under the car to hook it up. R compound road racing tires work fine at 1000+ horsepower.

[Unreal]

I run a 345 ET street full time and yes it hooks pretty well if it is warm, pressure is correct, and I'm going 60+mph. Then again as you go from 1200 to 1500 that may change.

[mylftft]

Like I said before Jess, just buy my car! Or sell your supercharger & have Andy make you a copy of my setup, you've seen the data logs, it works!

[Allanski]

Or buy my car, less than 5000 miles, 0 miles on engine, 0 miles on transmission, new build, just being tuned and dynoed this week:

427 LSX Turbo with nitrous

ENGINE
- Livernois Performance Built Engine 433 CID 10 to 1 Compression
- GM LSX iron block
- Callies Dragonslayer 4.00” stroke Crankshaft
- Diamond Custom Forged Pistons
- Carillo Billet Connecting Rods
- ARP Head Stud Kit
- Custom Livernois Billet Camshaft
- CTSV-R Hydraulic Lifters
- GM LSX-DR cylinder heads
- GM 90mm throttle body
- Alcohol Injection meth kit
DRIVETRAIN
- Jake’s transmission 4L80 Stage 5 with transbrake
- Jake’s 3600 stall converter
- B&M magnum ratchet shifter
- Dynatech one piece aluminum driveshaft
- G force 9" fabricated IRS rear end with 3.73 gears
POWERADDERS
- Precision PT7175 turbo
- Precision 46mm wastegate
- Procharger monster blowoff valve
- Custom fabricated stainless turbo set up
- Turbonetics front mount intercooler
- 4” down pipe split in to 2, 3” exhaust
- ID 1000 Fuel injectors
- Squash Return High HP Fuel System
SUSPENSION, BODY & MODS
- RPM 6 point color match IOM rollbar with removable side bars
- Sub-frame connectors
- Pedders Complete Suspension Bushings and custom trailing arms
- Line lock kit
- Nitous Outlet kit 150 shot available
- Custom illuminated wind deflector
- Custom etched and chromed 45 Anniversary Camaro Wheels (for street)
- Bogart wheels, skinnies and Hoosier slicks (for strip)
- 5” Harwood Fibreglass Functional Cowl Hood with Custom Heat Extractor Vents

Will consider partial trades of other 5th gen convertibles.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by mylftft

Like I said before Jess, just buy my car! Or sell your supercharger & have Andy make you a copy of my setup, you've seen the data logs, it works!

Your car is way better at building power and keeping cool above 3500 rpm...My car is better out of the hole and up to about 4000 rpm, I'm over 800 ft/lbs of torque from 2500rpm all the way to 4500 without the nitrous. I'm not trying to cause trouble or put salt in your wounds but I saw the 1/4 mile results from Camarofest and my last day at my local quarter mile track I ran faster than you did down there at lower elevation....plus I'm pushing a clutch and shifting the gears. My car is pretty fast right now....I'm very good in the first 1/8 and then your turbos kick in, I'm still holding a slight edge in the 1/4 but after that it is all you. I think if you ducked in behind me on a road race course you would find me pulling away on corner exits because my torque comes on much sooner and I can hold taller gears that make it a little easier to modulate the power at traction limits on corner exit.

My thought from the beginning has been that if the heat could be controlled and all the technical crap could be worked out a compound boost system would be the best of both worlds. Crazy supercharger torque on the bottom end of the powerband and crazy turbo power on the top end of the powerband. And turbos are so good on the top I think you could just open the supercharger bypass and not generate all the blower heat.... But I'm the driver and not the mechanic....

Are you really thinking of selling your car?

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by Unreal

I run a 345 ET street full time and yes it hooks pretty well if it is warm, pressure is correct, and I'm going 60+mph. Then again as you go from 1200 to 1500 that may change.

That is a good tire choice also. I prefer the road racing tires to the drag radials but they do work a lot better than the goodyears.

Originally Posted by Allanski

Or buy my car, less than 5000 miles, 0 miles on engine, 0 miles on transmission, new build, just being tuned and dynoed this week:

427 LSX Turbo with nitrous

ENGINE
- Livernois Performance Built Engine 433 CID 10 to 1 Compression
- GM LSX iron block
- Callies Dragonslayer 4.00” stroke Crankshaft
- Diamond Custom Forged Pistons
- Carillo Billet Connecting Rods
- ARP Head Stud Kit
- Custom Livernois Billet Camshaft
- CTSV-R Hydraulic Lifters
- GM LSX-DR cylinder heads
- GM 90mm throttle body
- Alcohol Injection meth kit
DRIVETRAIN
- Jake’s transmission 4L80 Stage 5 with transbrake
- Jake’s 3600 stall converter
- B&M magnum ratchet shifter
- Dynatech one piece aluminum driveshaft
- G force 9" fabricated IRS rear end with 3.73 gears
POWERADDERS
- Precision PT7175 turbo
- Precision 46mm wastegate
- Procharger monster blowoff valve
- Custom fabricated stainless turbo set up
- Turbonetics front mount intercooler
- 4” down pipe split in to 2, 3” exhaust
- ID 1000 Fuel injectors
- Squash Return High HP Fuel System
SUSPENSION, BODY & MODS
- RPM 6 point color match IOM rollbar with removable side bars
- Sub-frame connectors
- Pedders Complete Suspension Bushings and custom trailing arms
- Line lock kit
- Nitous Outlet kit 150 shot available
- Custom illuminated wind deflector
- Custom etched and chromed 45 Anniversary Camaro Wheels (for street)
- Bogart wheels, skinnies and Hoosier slicks (for strip)
- 5” Harwood Fibreglass Functional Cowl Hood with Custom Heat Extractor Vents

Will consider partial trades of other 5th gen convertibles.

It is definitely going to be good in the quarter mile.... but that 4 speed transmission is going to take it out of where I would even consider it for a daily driver. We run kind of fast out on the highways where I live. And I would blow it away in the Texas mile... you just don't have enough gearing. Good looking parts list though.