2011 Camaro SS Vs 1969 Camaro Zl1 STOCK

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by porcupinekiller

Don't forget the ZL1 won't even run on todays overpriced, crap pump gas. It's pretty tough to get 104
+ octane leaded fuel at the pumps these days. Lol
The performance of todays cars is pretty impressive when you consider this overpriced crap fuel we have these days. If you ran them today stock to stock my money would be on the 2011 SS.

While I can't say anything about the quality, gas isn't all that much more expensive when looking at inflation and the price of other things at the time. Sure, gas may have been $0.35/gal, and a good car would be $3,500 (though you could easily get one for half that), and a nice house would have been $35,000 or so. Now, gas is around $3.00/gal (though its expected to go up in the coming months), a good car will cost about $35,000 (though you can easily get one for half that) and a nice house will run you $350,000. And I bet, most jobs pay about 10x now as much as they did ~40 years ago too ...

[kickasswelch69]

ok. Ive read what u guys have said, and I now agree. Has anyone read up on that 2000 HP 1969 Camaro? heres the link. i cant view the video because im at school. Yeah. i do my work on a computer at my school. no more pencil pushing for me! lol

[Shu71]

Stock to stock and it would be an interesting race. The 2011 has some advantages in suspension and tires and more gears whereas the 1969 has the weight advantage. Keep in mind the ZL1 was the aluminum headed COPO car which is not the same engine as the standard 427 COPO which are what most of the Yenko's, Baldwin Motions, etc were all built out of. It was severely under rated the same as many of the muscle cars of that era due to insurance reasons.

Anyone that has driven a big block powered, light weight older car will agree that the power output 'feels' tremendously more than with the 5th Gen Camaro. Some of that is due to suspension and the advent of decent street tires whereas some of it is purely more power.

Drag racing one of those old big blocks on 70 series bias ply tires was a training exercise for the right foot, left leg and hands. Shifting that Muncie Rock Crusher was much more difficult than today’s 6 speeds. It took some talent to try to man handle one of those down the quarter mile in a quick manner. Today's Camaro's

I honestly think that a true ZL1 would beat a new Camaro provided it was on equal tires. One period tread and I think it would be a barn burner provided the driver of the ZL1 was talented enough to control the launch and could shift it right. Or if you want, let them both open up the exhaust and air and tune and bolt on slicks and I think you will see the ZL1 come to life like it was built to do.

Cars have gotten so much more refined and the new Camaro is an amazing example of how you can have power and the technology makes it easier to put more of it to the ground making it so much easier for anyone to drive. At least that is how I see it.

[assasinator]

zl1 heads:

part number: 3946074
year:69-71
valves: 2.19/1.88
118cc L-88/ZL-1 Aluminum Rectangular port
Intake port volume 320cc
Exhaust port volume:120cc

flow 331/213 @ .600



l92/ls3 heads:

4.030” test bore
Lift.......100....150....200....250....300 ....350 ....400 ....450 ....500 ....550 .....600
#1 Int. 74.9...109....154....193.5..225.... 252.... 274.... 292.... 308.... 321.0...328.7
#1 Exh. 63... 97.9 ..126.... 148....162.....178.....189......197.....205.....21 0.....214.6


6.2 liters vs 7 liters. you would have to rev the ls3 VERY high to get the same power, but it would make the same power apples to apples.

put an open dump nascar style intake manifold with 4 ventri throttle body injection(1k cfm), titanium valves, forged bottom end, large enough cam, 2" headers. rev it over 7k.


the ls would make every single hp an all out ZL1 would make at a higher rpm.

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

While I can't say anything about the quality, gas isn't all that much more expensive when looking at inflation and the price of other things at the time. Sure, gas may have been $0.35/gal, and a good car would be $3,500 (though you could easily get one for half that), and a nice house would have been $35,000 or so. Now, gas is around $3.00/gal (though its expected to go up in the coming months), a good car will cost about $35,000 (though you can easily get one for half that) and a nice house will run you $350,000. And I bet, most jobs pay about 10x now as much as they did ~40 years ago too ...

$5+ per gallon for 94 octane Chevron out here. 30 yrs ago the lowest octane was a 97 rating and premium was 101. Hense my comment about the quality of fuel. The price of gas may be on par with inflation but the octane levels have decreased (mostly due to emmision standards and removal of lead). It's surprizing how well newer cars can run on even 87 octane if you have a good tune.
Oh and $350,000 would make a nice down paymant on a house here in Vancouver. Lol
To buy a decent livable house in my area you are looking a $1.3+ million. $350,000 would get you a 500-600 sq ft apartment condo in Vancouver.
Here's a place that is about 10 blocks away from my place.
http://www.6717000.com/listings/sold...w-17th-av.html

[usa1camaro1969]

At a "purestock" event. Does it mean it was purely stock, no. '69 ZL1 vs '69 Yenko.
They limit what can be upgrades, though. He did run an 11.5 also at the event.

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by usa1camaro1969

At a "purestock" event. Does it mean it was purely stock, no. '69 ZL1 vs '69 Yenko.
They limit what can be upgrades, though. He did run an 11.5 also at the event.

Awesome vid!!
Pure stock to pure stock I would still give the 2011 SS the edge. But put a set of stickier tires on the 69 and it all changes.

[kickasswelch69]

damn thats a nice house! I agree with the stick tires on the 69. I also have a question partianing to drag wheels. Here it is. How do drag radials benefit cars. my brother has a 1970 El Camino with a 350. and it came with drag radials. what do they even do?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by kickasswelch69

damn thats a nice house! I agree with the stick tires on the 69. I also have a question partianing to drag wheels. Here it is. How do drag radials benefit cars. my brother has a 1970 El Camino with a 350. and it came with drag radials. what do they even do?

They give the car more grip, so you can apply more power without spinning the tires.

[radz28]

That 430 horsepower was also not "peak" horsepower either, from what I've read. If GM actually published peak numbers, it would've been significantly higher, not even taking into account the simple tuning stuff done to easily get it well past the 12s.

A bone stock SS would beat a bone-stock ZL1. Give both complete exhaust, tuning, and traction, and it wouldn't even be funny how ZL1 would smoke a 5th Gen.

That would so cool a race though

[VADER SS L99]

Bone stock vs bone stock and the new SS would eat the ZL1 for lunch. Now if you put full bolt ons on both cars with no weight reduction for either then the ZL1 would win by a couple of tenths. This includes drag radials or slicks and full suspension. I dont have to guess on this one becuase both cars have been tested this way. Everyone talks about how the ZL1 only made 375 SAE HP and this is true but I think that is on todays pump gas octane and the torque on the ZL1, even in todays standard, is pretty impressive. I dont know what it is but I bet it is alot more than 375. I bet the 375hp rating in SAE would go up also if the timing was set for leaded fuel too.

[Mcnamee]

The stock tires on cars in the 60's were horrible, I think in today's comparison they are the same size as a new Cobalt's tires and the tread compound didn't grip for shit, except these Camaro's had well over 400 horsepower and torque, modern dyno's have shown these engines make retarded power, stock vs stock the old Camaro would have one hell of a time hooking up, if you ever watch/read reviews on these old cars, they always talk about how retardedly hard it was ever to get the car to hook and it STILL ran low 13's. I doubt if these cars had proper tires they would have a hard time beating a new SS.

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by radz28

That 430 horsepower was also not "peak" horsepower either, from what I've read. If GM actually published peak numbers, it would've been significantly higher, not even taking into account the simple tuning stuff done to easily get it well past the 12s.

A bone stock SS would beat a bone-stock ZL1. Give both complete exhaust, tuning, and traction, and it wouldn't even be funny how ZL1 would smoke a 5th Gen.

That would so cool a race though

a bone stock emissions legal ZL1 has been on the dyno and it makes 375 sae net hp. PEAK.



look, i'm not trying to shoot down some legend. i like BBC just fine. BUT

i posted head flow numbers. its not like the ZL1 has some kind of nascar super secret head. it had an l88 head, nothing more. its a limiting factor regardless of displacement. an L88 will make exactly to the last HP the same as a ZL1. same part number. same head. use the same cam, same intake, one is heavier than the other, but output is identical.


your LS3 head matches the l88/ZL1 head flow pretty exactly. and the LS3 has the exact same power potential. not one single hp less IMO. will you have to rev the bejeezus out of it. yes. would it help to open the port volume a smidgeon for 7500+ rpms.....yes a bit.


its just money.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by assasinator

a bone stock emissions legal ZL1 has been on the dyno and it makes 375 sae net hp. PEAK.

look, i'm not trying to shoot down some legend. i like BBC just fine. BUT

i posted head flow numbers. its not like the ZL1 has some kind of nascar super secret head. it had an l88 head, nothing more. its a limiting factor regardless of displacement. an L88 will make exactly to the last HP the same as a ZL1. same part number. same head. use the same cam, same intake, one is heavier than the other, but output is identical.

your LS3 head matches the l88/ZL1 head flow pretty exactly. and the LS3 has the exact same power potential. not one single hp less IMO. will you have to rev the bejeezus out of it. yes. would it help to open the port volume a smidgeon for 7500+ rpms.....yes a bit.

its just money.

They are not L88 heads. I can't remember which way it went, but L88s were open chamber heads and ZL1 heads were closed chamber (or vise versa . I have an article, from Hot Rod, when they released ZL1, and it had all the differences from L88. I know gross numbers and the net numbers are different, though. I haven't seen any net numbers on ZL1, so I can't really comment on that.

It seems a LS7 doesn't have to rev' to 7500 for good numbers. It makes peak at what, around 6000? Port volume is a lot greater (what, like 360ccs).