How much is reasonable now (base price), given the 'Ring times?

[Blackkaz04]

I think the price will be 60k......plus minimal options.

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by tooslow

.

Some of you act like if the car does not fall into then price range you think it should (bet's are that number is exactly what you can afford) then GM has somehow failed.

I believe they have failed if it is outside about 52k max.
Ring numbers mean lots to Corvette owners and squat to camaro owners. IMO they have missed the proper target audience for this car. Its cool the car runs the track in those times, but it aint worth an extra 6 or 7 k. How many of you have a track like that to drive it on?
I and many others could really care less about the track. We want a muscle car.
We might as well concede the ZL1 is going to be 60k at this point which will delete 50% of the potential sales of the car. If GM wants to sell half as many cars for 6k more ea. than the magic price, well, so be it. The end result is less of us get to enjoy the ZL1 I guess.
Its also kind of a double loss for GM, as many potential ZL1 buyers will be Shelby buyers instead ,as this is the closest option available. :(

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by tooslow

I've never liked the term "working man" when trying to describe someone's economic position. I know a lot of people who earn $200K+ who work just as hard or harder than people considered to be "working men/women".

Sorry for going off topic. Rant off.

Thats because the term working man does not apply to pencil pushers, It applies to hands on blue collar workers. Nobody makin 200k is a "workin man" based on the generally accepted meaning of this term.

[Blackkaz04]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

I believe they have failed if it is outside about 52k max.
Ring numbers mean lots to Corvette owners and squat to camaro owners. IMO they have missed the proper target audience for this car. Its cool the car runs the track in those times, but it aint worth an extra 6 or 7 k. How many of you have a track like that to drive it on?
I and many others could really care less about the track. We want a muscle car.
We might as well concede the ZL1 is going to be 60k at this point which will delete 50% of the potential sales of the car. If GM wants to sell half as many cars for 6k more ea. than the magic price, well, so be it. The end result is less of us get to enjoy the ZL1 I guess.
Its also kind of a double loss for GM, as many potential ZL1 buyers will be Shelby buyers instead ,as this is the closest option available. :(

yeah it sucks, but if a fully loaded SS is around 40k, I don't see the ZL1 being only 10-12k more. It stinks, I have already accepted it as a "military working man" I won't be able to afford it. I guess that's why I am not so excited to see it's release. It will become just another rich man's toy in his five car garage. How about an amazing muscle car for 50k gm?? Even that is expensive.

MY Rant is over.

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by Blackkaz04

I think the price will be 60k......plus minimal options.

Think about it.......This is why GM says "It will build as many as people want"
It won't be a limited PRODUCTION just a limited CUSTOMER BASE because of the price range for a Camaro that is out of most Camaro enthusiasts reach.
They basically gave us a hint from the start. They are not worried about meeting demand, because they already know demand will be small based on the fact most people won't justify a Camaro priced like a Corvette.
Its also a hint that the name chosen was "ZL1". Because, as in the 1969, the price for this car is astronomical for its time.


It all makes sense now if you think about it.

[Blackkaz04]

yeah....it won't be a car that most camaro owners will be able to purchase. Just another toy for the rich man.....ahh well there are many other things in life than a shiny new overpriced car.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

Thats because the term working man does not apply to pencil pushers, It applies to hands on blue collar workers. Nobody makin 200k is a "workin man" based on the generally accepted meaning of this term.

Sure it does. Some of those pencil pushers put in 50-60+ hours in a work week. Those folks are away from their loved ones as much or more than the blue collar folks you reference. The only difference is the type of work they do. One type of work may be more physical and the other more mental, but both take their toll on the worker in equal but different ways.

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Sure it does. Some of those pencil pushers put in 50-60+ hours in a work week. Those folks are away from their loved ones as much or more than the blue collar folks you reference. The only difference is the type of work they do. One type of work may be more physical and the other more mental, but both take their toll on the worker in equal but different ways.

I'm not arguing what you are saying, just the generally held thought on the subject. Lots of people work hard for their money.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by 2012ZL1

I believe they have failed if it is outside about 52k max.
Ring numbers mean lots to Corvette owners and squat to camaro owners. IMO they have missed the proper target audience for this car. Its cool the car runs the track in those times, but it aint worth an extra 6 or 7 k. How many of you have a track like that to drive it on?
I and many others could really care less about the track. We want a muscle car.
We might as well concede the ZL1 is going to be 60k at this point which will delete 50% of the potential sales of the car. If GM wants to sell half as many cars for 6k more ea. than the magic price, well, so be it. The end result is less of us get to enjoy the ZL1 I guess.
Its also kind of a double loss for GM, as many potential ZL1 buyers will be Shelby buyers instead ,as this is the closest option available. :(

I kinda feel the same way. If camaro is going towards the all out performance and exotic market, then IMO it is abandoning the "bread and butter" market that it was designed for and the market that made the camaro the legend it is today.

On the other hand, I like what this zl1 is accomplishing for the camaro name, in which it will now demand respect that some others have refused to give to it. Tough act that this zl1 has made for itself......getting some newfound respect.....while keeping its old friends happy.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by lbls1

I kinda feel the same way. If camaro is going towards the all out performance and exotic market, then IMO it is abandoning the "bread and butter" market that it was designed for and the market that made the camaro the legend it is today.

How would they be abandoning the "Bread and butter" market..... They still have other models in that price range

[lbls1]

Perhaps. In the past (not talking about vintage camaros now that demand 100k+...that's another discussion) most of the camaro models IMO were in the range of its target market. I am hoping that the zl1 will not be priced in the range of the cts-v. Like you say, the way that the car is outfitted now....60K doesn't sound like an outrageous price...on another nameplate like cadillac, acura, etc. On a non-corvette chevrolet, 60K and above will be a stretch outside of an affordable price.

[91Z28350]

This car is no more or less out of the reach of the "Working man (which I consider myself one of)" than the GT500 or the GS 'Vette is.

[IOMZL1]

Originally Posted by lbls1

Perhaps. In the past (not talking about vintage camaros now that demand 100k+...that's another discussion) most of the camaro models IMO were in the range of its target market. I am hoping that the zl1 will not be priced in the range of the cts-v. Like you say, the way that the car is outfitted now....60K doesn't sound like an outrageous price...on another nameplate like cadillac, acura, etc. On a non-corvette chevrolet, 60K and above will be a stretch outside of an affordable price.

Does Chevrolet translate into 'cheap car'? I don't get this argument. If things stayed the same as they always were progress would never be made. GM is trying to make progress and improve, not go back into bankruptcy.

What are we talking here, $10,000? So if the ZL1 is $48,000 GM has created a success but if it is $58,000 it fails? Maybe it is just me but this all seems ridiculous.

[GoldenBear]

Let's summarize what we know. Scott has indicated that the ZL1 will have very few options:

1. Color
2. Automatic transmission
3. Sunroof
4. Polished wheels
5. Ultra Suede Interior
6. Stripe delete

Have I missed any options?

The options I'm planning on are Crystal Red, Polished wheels, and Ultra Suede.

Performance numbers:

1. Nurburgring Lap Time -- 7:41.27
2. 0-60 MPH time -- ?
3. Quarter Mile time @ speed -- ?
4. Skidpad number -- ?
5. Slalom speed -- ?
7. Braking distances -- ?

Let's hope that we'll find the answers to those performance questions soon.

However, the really big unknown question surrounding the ZL1 at this point is price.

The ZL1 pricing issue, for me, is not the lack of available funds, as I have enough cash in my ZL1 slush fund to cover the price of the ZL1 as long as it's not priced at ZR1 levels. The issue is getting approval from the boss. Currently, I have approval of a price up to the high $50K range, and that wasn't easy to achieve, "You want to spend how much on a Camaro? A Camaro?" If it were a Porsche or BMW, the price wouldn't be an issue, but I don't want a Porsche or BMW. I want a ZL1.

If the ZL1 price ends up being above the high $50K range, I'm going to have to reopen negotiations to get approval for a larger amount, and I may not come away with a successful result. If I don't, I'm not sure what vehicle I'd purchase at that point. I'd have to think long and hard about it if that were to occur. I think that I might not be the only Camaro enthusiast who is in the same position. Let's hope that Chevrolet comes through for us.