unvoiding the warranty

[el ess A]

Originally Posted by XxScottxXN

In a Consumer Alert issued by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the agency confirmed that “The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket part.” The alert outlines key provisions in the law that provides protections to car owners. As defined by the FTC, an “aftermarket' part is a part made by a company other than the vehicle manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer.”

Exactly correct. And this is what they can use to justify denying the coverage on a tune. If you are going in to claim a warranty repair on an affected system with the aftermarket software controlling that system where the component failed on it, they can prove by virtue of the software fault causing the issue (if that's what it was). I'm betting GM's lawyers will be better than yours. Remember the BCM, ECM, etc. talk to each other. I'm not a tuning expert, but if there's cross-talk between the computer controlled systems and part of it has an aftermarket tune on it, they could reasonably ascertain that the non-approved software could be the source of the issue. (I do agree it sounds kind of a reach to say the tune affected the airbag but I don't know if it actually could or not.) But your drivetrain warranty...poof! Gone.

GM could care less if you tune your car. But if you break an engine part and try to claim it under warranty, and they find a tune on it, then reasonable deduction is that the tune was done to increase the performance outside the certified/validated parameters of the OEM software, thus putting more stress on the engine/drivetrain components. Thus a failure of any of these components and subsequent warranty claim could and probably will be denied.

Not ALL dealers will take it to the extreme, but if one does and voids your warranty, good friggin' luck getting it un-voided. And don't bother going to another dealer, once they void it, they'll ALL know it when they pull up the VIN.

I'm not against tunes. I'm not against mods or performance enhancers. But I do find it very sad that someone would expect to get a problem fixed under warranty when the aftermarket part DID, in fact, cause the problem. Personal responsibility comes into play here. DON'T muck with the ECM software if you want to ensure you keep the warranty intact. But don't expect sympathy from me if you did mess something up and expect GM to cover it under warranty and then they void your warranty.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Rhyder

If the wording of a preceding case does in fact cover it, you can take the dealership and GM to small claims court, think its like $100 filing fee. Thats good for up to 5 to 10k depending on state or court system. should be no problem if its already written. They often don't even show if they aren't headquartered in your state, retaining a lawyer for a case of so little isn't worth it.

but even if they do its on them to prove different...I think ill do that if i run into a similar problem, that way even if they wont do the work, if you win they have to pay for it. Ive spent more than a 4100 on little mods to the look of my car, its nothing if it will get a big item repair done as they should already

not much cost at all if your looking at a big money item for repair.

If they started getting hit with a few thousand small court cases a year maybe they would rethink this stance.

Here's the issue though, when you file a lawsuit against a company, you have to file the suit in their home district. If you don't then legally, that company does not have to abide by the ruling of the lawsuit. Which means travel expenses, hotel costs, etc which by the way you can not include in the settlement so you will be paying out of pocket for this.

Also, Small Claims doesn't have the authority that you are assuming it does. You will have to at least file in District Court which costs a lot more then filing in Small Claims, around $1k. In most states you can not sue for court costs so you would be stuck paying out of pocket for this as well as any of the above expenses already mentioned.

But all of this is a waste of money. There are tens of thousands of cases documented where people has tried to sue a car manufacturer for voiding their power train warranty claiming they are protected under the M&M act, there are even a few members on this forum who tried. There is not a single case that I'm aware of or have ever found that ruled in favor of the individual. The court system has clearly shown that the M&M act does not protect you in this matter. It is there strictly to protect you from being denied a claim on a part that is unaffiliated with the aftermarket part.

[GunnyG]

Had the silliest warranty denial last week. I had a TPM system malfunction. I tried they deflate for 30 seconds trick. Didn't work. Went to Weseloh Chevy in Carlsbad CA. They claimed since I have aftermarket wheels, I voided any warranty associated with that, and they wouldn't touch my car. WTF? I just went to Discount Tire, and they reset it for a 12 pack of Coca-Cola.

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by GunnyG

Had the silliest warranty denial last week. I had a TPM system malfunction. I tried they deflate for 30 seconds trick. Didn't work. Went to Weseloh Chevy in Carlsbad CA. They claimed since I have aftermarket wheels, I voided any warranty associated with that, and they wouldn't touch my car. WTF? I just went to Discount Tire, and they reset it for a 12 pack of Coca-Cola.

probably cheaper than the dealer anyway

[GunnyG]

Originally Posted by stieger

probably cheaper than the dealer anyway

Should have been under warranty, and covered FREE. I enjoyed hooking those guys up with sodas. The manager Jerry was a great guy. They loved my car. Weseloh Chevy guys were douches. Uhhhm-ing, and ahhhh-ing a way just to say no. Took less that 10 minutes for Discount to reset it. They had the software. Jerry did say that an unwarranteed reset would run $180. So yeah, it was cheaper...but I think you missed my point.

[Rhyder]

Originally Posted by el ess X

Exactly correct. And this is what they can use to justify denying the coverage on a tune. If you are going in to claim a warranty repair on an affected system with the aftermarket software controlling that system where the component failed on it, they can prove by virtue of the software fault causing the issue (if that's what it was). I'm betting GM's lawyers will be better than yours. Remember the BCM, ECM, etc. talk to each other. I'm not a tuning expert, but if there's cross-talk between the computer controlled systems and part of it has an aftermarket tune on it, they could reasonably ascertain that the non-approved software could be the source of the issue. (I do agree it sounds kind of a reach to say the tune affected the airbag but I don't know if it actually could or not.) But your drivetrain warranty...poof! Gone.

GM could care less if you tune your car. But if you break an engine part and try to claim it under warranty, and they find a tune on it, then reasonable deduction is that the tune was done to increase the performance outside the certified/validated parameters of the OEM software, thus putting more stress on the engine/drivetrain components. Thus a failure of any of these components and subsequent warranty claim could and probably will be denied.

Not ALL dealers will take it to the extreme, but if one does and voids your warranty, good friggin' luck getting it un-voided. And don't bother going to another dealer, once they void it, they'll ALL know it when they pull up the VIN.

I'm not against tunes. I'm not against mods or performance enhancers. But I do find it very sad that someone would expect to get a problem fixed under warranty when the aftermarket part DID, in fact, cause the problem. Personal responsibility comes into play here. DON'T muck with the ECM software if you want to ensure you keep the warranty intact. But don't expect sympathy from me if you did mess something up and expect GM to cover it under warranty and then they void your warranty.

So your stance is that a tune causes damage to the vehicle?

[sycraft]

Originally Posted by GunnyG

Should have been under warranty, and covered FREE. I enjoyed hooking those guys up with sodas. The manager Jerry was a great guy. They loved my car. Weseloh Chevy guys were douches. Uhhhm-ing, and ahhhh-ing a way just to say no. Took less that 10 minutes for Discount to reset it. They had the software. Jerry did say that an unwarranteed reset would run $180. So yeah, it was cheaper...but I think you missed my point.

How is GM responsible for your non GM wheels? If you had a good relationship with them anyway they would just come out and try a reset with their tool. takes them 3 minutes. I have a great relationship with my dealer, get all my oil changes there too. I put on a set of GM wheels and had them reset at n/c. not trying to bash, but its not their product, so no warranty..

[GunnyG]

Originally Posted by sycraft

How is GM responsible for your non GM wheels? If you had a good relationship with them anyway they would just come out and try a reset with their tool. takes them 3 minutes. I have a great relationship with my dealer, get all my oil changes there too. I put on a set of GM wheels and had them reset at n/c. not trying to bash, but its not their product, so no warranty..

Didn't say GM was responsible for my non GM wheels. I had already checked the wheels, and knew the tire pressure was good. The system had four blanks on the monitoring read outs. The system was malfunctioning, and the wheels were fine. Discount Tire didn't touch the wheels to fix it, as far as I saw. I've done oil changes at Weseloh...even when I had my Escalade. Didn't buy my Camaro, or Escalade from there. Thought I had a pretty good relationship with them. I sometimes paid for oil changes a year in advance. Just wanted to get it looked at. A totally unconnected business did a favor, and a GM dealership wouldn't even take a look at it was my point. Sorry if you got offended, or whatever....if your dealership isn't Weseloh Chevy in Carlsbad CA, I'm glad for you. Glad you got a great relationship...wait til you need something they don't wanna do. So, if I get a catch can, does that void a my engine warranty too?

[sycraft]

Its all about the relationship, find a dealer that is in performance, he will understand. They will do all they can to fix it under warranry if they can, GM is paying them, but if it requires documentation of the repair, IE tunes, parts returns, or additional labor beyond factory time, then their hands are tied. I would try to find a dealer that does that, there are plenty....

[SGOS252382]

Originally Posted by sycraft

Its all about the relationship, find a dealer that is in performance, he will understand. They will do all they can to fix it under warranry if they can, GM is paying them, but if it requires documentation of the repair, IE tunes, parts returns, or additional labor beyond factory time, then their hands are tied. I would try to find a dealer that does that, there are plenty....

This
I frequent two different GM dealerships in my area. They are 100% opposites in the way they treat their modded customers. The dealership closest to where I live is very anti-modification. They will try to deny you warranty work on practically everything (even minor stuff unrelated to your mods).

While the other dealership (a little further away) will work with you even if you have mods. Without going into complete detail, they will do whatever they can to help you (even if your modded and tuned).

But that lead me back to the tune vs not tune issue.
I really do feel that if you want your 100% warranty, you should just keep your car stock or limit it to a catback and intake.

[Rhyder]

Im still waiting on a yes or no answer form the GM supporters on if they think a tune causes damage to a vehicle.....I mean by supporting GM's arbitrary voiding of the warranty I assume they do. Im just curious if they will step out from behind a vague"well messing with the ECM can cause issues" kind of statements.

yes or no, does a tune, nothing else, just a tune cause damage to the vehicle?

[sycraft]

Originally Posted by Rhyder

Im still waiting on a yes or no answer form the GM supporters on if they think a tune causes damage to a vehicle.....I mean by supporting GM's arbitrary voiding of the warranty I assume they do. Im just curious if they will step out from behind a vague"well messing with the ECM can cause issues" kind of statements.

yes or no, does a tune, nothing else, just a tune cause damage to the vehicle?

It can, what did the tune do, lean it out, fatten it up, maybe cause excessive carbon buildup or a lean condition burning pistons, I am not against tunes, my silverado is tuned. but the factory tries to set it up for the best economy and prolonged life, making addl HP and changing the factory values can make differences in reliability. These new engines can be wound up pretty tight and make impressive HP reliably. They only need to cover their tune and parts, if the parameters change then they are no longer under obligation. Just like a guy who takes his car to the track and breaks a rear end, if the dealer finds out, he can deny the warranty for that failure.

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by Rhyder

Im still waiting on a yes or no answer form the GM supporters on if they think a tune causes damage to a vehicle.....I mean by supporting GM's arbitrary voiding of the warranty I assume they do. Im just curious if they will step out from behind a vague"well messing with the ECM can cause issues" kind of statements.

yes or no, does a tune, nothing else, just a tune cause damage to the vehicle?

No one's answered yet because you're asking a loaded question. The answer to your question is All The Above.

[JewelSS]

I talked to my local dealership here in Concord, Ca and the service tech told me that a tune doesnt void my warranty. Only if i add forced induction or a chip. I am waiting to get this in writing or see some sort of paper work on it. I really want to get the AFM tuned out so this is something i am thinking about doing but like my warranty. Will see.......