High Compression Ratio + Boost = Uh Oh

[drivingincamaro]

just a question do you need a mechanic to install a turbo

or could you just put in a turbo yourself?

is there anything else you need to do other than installing a turbo,
Maintenance?

[Mblock66]

oh yeah it is not that simple at all. You would need to pipe from the exhaust manifolds to the hot side of the turbo (to spin it) and put it in the air intake line to boost the incoming air, then pass it through an intercooler, and then into the intake manifold. So uppipes downpipes intercoolers etc.

For a not originally turbo'd car it is a LOT of work. Simply swapping a turbo for a larger turbo isn't too bad, mostly just oil lines, water lines, bolts, wastegate etc. But a whole kit is hours and hours of work and you would want an experienced professional to install it. Boosting a car is like putting a gernade in your engine and if not done right, boom!

[drivingincamaro]

thanks but i have a few more questions

are super charger fuel efficient as turbos?

are they reliable

supercharger maintenance?

thanks

[SS4EVER]

Originally Posted by drivingincamaro

thanks but i have a few more questions

are super charger fuel efficient as turbos?

are they reliable

supercharger maintenance?

thanks

Typically turbochargers are way more fuel efficient then superchargers. It also depends on which type of supercharger you are comparing too. Centrifugal? Roots-type?

Superchargers take power to make power. Turbochargers don't.

Now Eaton's new TVS supercharger is actually very advanced and is both powerful and fuel efficient. I know with my SS/SC alot of owners are converting from the traditional M62 roots type S/C to the new TVS S/C.

I think the LSA actually has a TVS S/C, but don't quote me on that.

And Audi is switching from their traditional bi-turbo setup, or single turbo on their next RS4, RS6 in favor of the TVS S/C.

Superchargers can just be as reliable as turbos. I haven't owned a turbo engine myself, although I plan to. From what I know S/C's tend to be a little less complicated.

As far as maintenance goes, that I can't tell you either seeing as I have not owned both, but with S/C cars the superchargers of course have their own lubricant in them (oil) that needs to be replaced maybe every 50k miles or 100k miles depending in the supercharger, engine, etc.

I'd say turbos are better for smaller displaced engines such as 4cyl's and 6cyl's... but for the V8, like the LS3, a supercharger would be more beneficial, but it depends. Really it comes down to personal preference.

Although I do imagine for the V6 Camaro, just slapping on a Procharger, or Vortech may get you the best bang for your buck... We'll have to wait and see.

[Mblock66]

The other thing to remember is that superchargers are linear power while turbos have a curved powerband.

What I mean by this is......a supercharger is driven off of the belt system turned by the crank. As the RPMs increase it spins the supercharger and builds the boost in a linear fashion. A turbo may have little to no effect on a car at say 1500 RPM even up to 3000-4000 RPM. Until you can get the turbine to spin fast enough from the hot exhaust gases it will not compress the air on the cold side enough to really give you a boosting effect. But once a turbo is spooled to lik 20,000-35,0000 RPM it will kick in and give crazy power.

So the effieiency of a turbo helps fuel economy when you are at low RPM since you aren't using higher air/fuel charts to compensate for all that boost. With a supercharger you have no choice, the RPM determines the boost and you really can't "get out of it"

I would say that superchargers are easier to bolt on and there may be less to maintain. But they will not make as much peak HP and TQ potential as a turbo setup can. So there are pros and cons to both. Superchargers can add a big whiny sound too (think 2003-4 Cobras) where a turbo will add a spool whistling sound (if that makes sense - listen next time you pass a mack truck they are all turbos)

Usually superchargers are much cheaper then turbos as well. The APS TT kit for the corvette is one of the most potent systems out there. It will make like 650-700 RWHP at peak but it is like 9k for the kit and then you need to install it too. Maggie chargers for the vette run like 6500-7500 and then install. But they will produce in the 500-600 rwd hp range depending on other mods and if you intercoor and meth inject it.

My advice is to learn and research research research. If you don't know what you are getting into then you probably shouldn't be boosting a car just yet. There isa wealth ok knowledge out there and all drivers like something different. Read up and see what you think would suit you and then see if you can test drive something with that setup

[Muscle Master]

I recommend you don't go over 5psi and get a good quality intercooler, like pay 3K or more for one

[The_Blur]

In response to the original poster, I would say that 5 psi is a good number. Before installing a turbo, I strongly encourage you to upgrade pistons and beams to ones that are stronger than your needs. It's worth avoiding the risk of accidentally blowing up your car.

In response to subsequent post, I strongly encourage everyone, including myself, to heavily research forced induction of all types before making any decisions. We all know that power is dangerous for control reasons. Sometimes power is dangerous for budget reasons because it costs more to build, maintain, and keep for a long time. Before installing anything that may change the future of your car, make sure that it is street legal depending on your goals, affordable, done properly (get help if necessary), and, most importantly, safe.

You don't want to lose your car. Everyone on this site has a sacred bond to their machines.

You don't want to lose your life. It's just not worth it.

[JiXeR'z DoDgE/FoRd KiLLeR]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

In response to the original poster, I would say that 5 psi is a good number. Before installing a turbo, I strongly encourage you to upgrade pistons and beams to ones that are stronger than your needs. It's worth avoiding the risk of accidentally blowing up your car.

In response to subsequent post, I strongly encourage everyone, including myself, to heavily research forced induction of all types before making any decisions. We all know that power is dangerous for control reasons. Sometimes power is dangerous for budget reasons because it costs more to build, maintain, and keep for a long time. Before installing anything that may change the future of your car, make sure that it is street legal depending on your goals, affordable, done properly (get help if necessary), and, most importantly, safe.

You don't want to lose your car. Everyone on this site has a sacred bond to their machines.

You don't want to lose your life. It's just not worth it.

Smartest thing I've read today!

[Grape Ape]

Detonation is caused not by the pressure of compression, but by the heat generated by that heat. This is important because there are a lot of ways to mitigate that heat and the LTT uses several of them to good effect. Since the GM says to use regular unleaded, you should be able to add a fair amount of boost if you are willing to buy premium fuel. I bet you could do 10 psi all day, but I am happy to wait and see how it works out for a few people before I try.

Those of you who say that a turbo only works at high revs need to look at the modern DI turbo engines, it’s not your dads turbo. GM’s LNF and the twin turbo 6 in BMW’s 335 and 135 make their max torque by 2k and hold it past 5k.

[SS4EVER]

Originally Posted by Grape Ape

Detonation is caused not by the pressure of compression, but by the heat generated by that heat. This is important because there are a lot of ways to mitigate that heat and the LTT uses several of them to good effect. Since the GM says to use regular unleaded, you should be able to add a fair amount of boost if you are willing to buy premium fuel. I bet you could do 10 psi all day, but I am happy to wait and see how it works out for a few people before I try.

Those of you who say that a turbo only works at high revs need to look at the modern DI turbo engines, it’s not your dads turbo. GM’s LNF and the twin turbo 6 in BMW’s 335 and 135 make their max torque by 2k and hold it past 5k.

I'm going to wait as well, and see if any kits make their way out too.

Yeah, the turbo in the LNF 2.0L DI, VVT, 4cyl uses a twin scroll turbocharger, and it's also a smaller turbo which spools up much quicker, completely diminishing the effects of turbo lag...

I'm predicting that if they offer both a turbo kit, and a supercharger kit eventually for the V6 Camaro, that the S/C kit will probably cost around 1k less (at least) than a turbo, usually because of a few less parts with the S/C kits. But on an average this is usually what I've seen for most other vehicles...

I'm sure if Procharger made a kit, I'm also going to predict that we could see a kit going for like $2900-$3500, and probably a turbo kit depending on what kind (or stage) maybe in the 3-4k range...

Which as far as cost-effectiveness goes, you're probably better off just getting a SS, IF a turbo kit + labor if you get it professionally installed could cost you total what a SS would be, but if there are any affordable supercharger kits that become available 6 months to a year after the Camaro comes out and if I get one I'll probably look into it, just from owning a supercharged car...

Although I like turbos more...

[Mblock66]

This may be true that the 335 has little to no spool and makes max tq at 2000 but holding to 5500 means it is dead up top. That is the problem with turbos you cannot get big power through the entire range its either small turbos for fast spool and quick takeoff or large single turbos for max kick but major bog down low.


Don't forget that these cars are created and designed from the factory with turbo setups making them much more resonsive and adaptive. You will not get the same effect when throwing a turbo on the v6 camaro as a stock 335 its just totally different.

[SS4EVER]

Correct, that is the downside with the smaller turbos... They spool up quicker, but they suck on the top end.

Yeah, IDK... Until someone successfully, and safely throws a turbo on the V6 then I'm just going to wait, but I'm not holding my breath...

However I do think a roots=type supercharger may in fact be a little more suited for the
V6 Camaro... Just gotta wait and see.

[Mblock66]

Again this may be a decent option for the V6 but I just don't get the logic on why people would even consider this route?

It will cost you more to put on a turbo or blower on the V6 and lose your warrenty then it would to just buy the SS with a full coverage. On top of which the SS will still be putting more power to the wheels stock then the V6 with FI.

Stock LS3 vettes have put down as much as 400 whp. Most are in the 390-400 range. So lets just say that the camaro will but down about 385 stock. The V6 will put down at best 270 probably more like 260. There isn't much of a chance for that V6 with FI to safely get to 385 whp and if it does it would be at its limit.

that would be a 125 HP increase or 48% which i dont see happening.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

Again this may be a decent option for the V6 but I just don't get the logic on why people would even consider this route?

It will cost you more to put on a turbo or blower on the V6 and lose your warrenty then it would to just buy the SS with a full coverage. On top of which the SS will still be putting more power to the wheels stock then the V6 with FI.

Stock LS3 vettes have put down as much as 400 whp. Most are in the 390-400 range. So lets just say that the camaro will but down about 385 stock. The V6 will put down at best 270 probably more like 260. There isn't much of a chance for that V6 with FI to safely get to 385 whp and if it does it would be at its limit.

that would be a 125 HP increase or 48% which i dont see happening.

The V6 is a competitor in another class. Plus, the LLT motor will get better fuel efficiency and cost less to insure. It won't be hard to get another 100 horses out of the V6, so it can perform as well as a stock V8 if the parts and tuning are done properly.

The V6 can get over 400 hp if it is built properly. Just like a V8 build, it will need internals to be reworked to maximize performance and reliability. Putting that money into a V6 Camaro would be no different than a 350Z owner tuning it. They're even in the same class.

You could spend the same money on a V8, but you won't have the tuning budget to match. Depending on the driver, tuning past 400 horses may be more important than buying 400 horses and adding a couple of mods.

If I were a V6 or V8 owner, I'd be worried about meeting any future Camaro at the track. They can be built to be very powerful with less weight than a Camaro SS.