Serious ZL1 Defects

[Wondering]

Originally Posted by 01pewterz28

He is really pissing money away contacting an attorney right now once he reaches the legal right to file a claim for the Lemon law and in this case it would but cut and Dry I see no reason why GM would not buy back the car and offer him his money back or a 2013 ZL1 but until then he is just pissing his $$ away the Lemon law is pretty cut and dry let the dealership see if they can fix the issue if not it will be back for a 4th time foe the same issue then you start the Lemon Law process.

I agree....

And as much as I feel for the OP,the court system doesn't take into account future collectibility. Makes no difference if it's a Malibu or a ZL1. Until the car meets the requirements for a buyback in the OP's home state,GM is not required to do anything other than repair the car. Retaining a lawyer at this time would only result in higher attorney fees. As a matter of fact,I wouldn't even hire one then unless GM refused a buyback.

It's easy to tell someone to "lawyer up" when they're not the ones paying for their time.

[1954 Belair-man]

Originally Posted by Wondering

I agree....

And as much as I feel for the OP,the court system doesn't take into account future collectibility. Makes no difference if it's a Malibu or a ZL1. Until the car meets the requirements for a buyback in the OP's home state,GM is not required to do anything other than repair the car. Retaining a lawyer at this time would only result in higher attorney fees. As a matter of fact,I wouldn't even hire one then unless GM refused a buyback.

It's easy to tell someone to "lawyer up" when they're not the ones paying for their time.

I tend to agree with this.

[01pewterz28]

Originally Posted by Wondering

I agree....

And as much as I feel for the OP,the court system doesn't take into account future collectibility. Makes no difference if it's a Malibu or a ZL1. Until the car meets the requirements for a buyback in the OP's home state,GM is not required to do anything other than repair the car. Retaining a lawyer at this time would only result in higher attorney fees. As a matter of fact,I wouldn't even hire one then unless GM refused a buyback.

It's easy to tell someone to "lawyer up" when they're not the ones paying for their time.

Exactly no need for a lawyer when you file a claim for the lemon law. When I did my claim in late 1992 the total process took 1 year from start to finish I believe the process is not as long as it used to be but you can do it yourself using a lawyer will not make it happen any quicker just a lighter pocket book.

[SonnyakaPig]

The OP should contact a lawyer that handles lemon law in their state and find out if they take the case on contingency. That means the client pays nothing if the case isn't settled or won at trial. In certain states, in Lemon Law cases, the auto manufacturer pays the attorneys fees. At the very least it's a free consultation with a local attorney to see how the law works in the OP's state. In CA for instance, the client pays nothing unless the case settles or is won and the auto manufacturer pays attorneys fees.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by CAM ZL1

The service tech who has been working on the issue brought up two more possabilities for the source of the leak, one being a matter of porosity in the block somewhere above the rear plate. I am a Journeyman Tool & Die Maker by trade and hearing that there could be such drastic porosity in such a precision engine is quite disturbing. I can't see in batch casting processes only one motor having this issue, and accordingly if that is in fact the issue I assume there will be at least some more instances of oil leaks whether severe as I would classify mine or more of a CTS-V constant but minimal leak. The other thought the service tech had was that at high engine RPM, above the 5,000 mark that oil pressure somewhere in the engine was causing a seal to blow out and leak, once again something I do not expect from a precision sport car.

I don't know what factors might affect casting porosity, but I've seen it happen in other aluminum castings. Make that "personally watched the results", as many years ago I had a set of aluminum wheels that leaked air through the metal fast enough that you could see the bubbles steadily form when you washed them. Name-brand wheels from before you had to wonder about "Made in China", too.


Norm

[Chevy Fanatic]

Originally Posted by CAM ZL1

The service tech who has been working on the issue brought up two more possabilities for the source of the leak, one being a matter of porosity in the block somewhere above the rear plate. The other thought the service tech had was that at high engine RPM, above the 5,000 mark that oil pressure somewhere in the engine was causing a seal to blow out and leak, once again something I do not expect from a precision sport car.

Is there a possibility that the crankcase ventilation system is at fault (pinched hose, or?) causing crankcase pressure to build to a point where pressure is pushing oil out of the seals / gaskets?

[01pewterz28]

Originally Posted by SonnyakaPig

The OP should contact a lawyer that handles lemon law in their state and find out if they take the case on contingency. That means the client pays nothing if the case isn't settled or won at trial. In certain states, in Lemon Law cases, the auto manufacturer pays the attorneys fees. At the very least it's a free consultation with a local attorney to see how the law works in the OP's state. In CA for instance, the client pays nothing unless the case settles or is won and the auto manufacturer pays attorneys fees.

Waste of Time for now once he reaches the magic number 4 or 30 days in the shop he can file the Lemon Law.

Below is the Lemon law for the state of Michigan.

Michigan's Auto Lemon Law

The law applies to privately owned passenger vehicles and those leased after January 1, 2000, used for personal, family or household purposes. Some business-type vehicles may also be covered. The law does not apply to larger trucks, motor homes, motorcycles, or off-road vehicles.



A defective vehicle is one in which the same problem has not been repaired after four attempts, or a vehicle that is out of service 30 days or more for repairs. The first report of the defect must be made within one year from the date of delivery to the original purchaser or lessee or during the term of the manufacturer's warranty, whichever period is shorter.



If the vehicle you purchase is defective, you may be entitled under state law to replacement of it or a refund of the cost of the lease. To obtain replacement or refund, you must first report the defect in writing to the manufacturer and you may be required to first arbitrate the dispute.



In order to protect your rights under Michigan's Lemon Law, follow these steps:

Keep copies of all correspondence to and from the manufacturer and the dealer.
Keep copies of all work orders for repairs on the vehicle, including the date(s) the work was performed and the mileage on the vehicle at the time of the repair(s).
Follow all requirements of the warranty, including any requirement that the repairs must be done by an authorized dealer specified by the manufacturer.

The OP has not yet reached the requirements for the Lemon Law claim he is close but they are very strict if you have not reached the requirements you cannot file.

[SonnyakaPig]

^Definitely not a waste of time to consult a lemon law attorney. You learn consumer rights that way. And actually, their may be a step or two not explicitly spelled out in the law that an attorney would know. Like notice of final repair. Look, my posts are about information and one thing I know is that you can't sit there and decide what someone's chances are for a lemon law case without knowing all the facts and have legal knowledge. That's why I maintain my suggestion to consult and learn your rights as a consumer when you're in a situation like this.

[Dr Jkel]

If you lawyer up the help you are getting may quickly cease......I kno wit is a PITA but let them try to fix it...if they can't then you have the Lemon Law to fall back on...Is is a PITA? Well of course it is.

You must remember that this is a production car made with production parts and sometimes...things just happen. It doesn't make it any easier to deal with or make you feel any better but it will get resolved one way or another.

This was the case when the 5th Gen was launched and the whole transmssion tail shaft failure came out...People thought the world was coming to an end but GM took care of it...Were there some problems? Sure there was but in time the situation was rectified.

OP I know you are pissed to be dealing with this and I would be too BUT all that being pissed does...well is make you pissed and does not solve the issues you are having.

It sounds like the dealer is a good one and willing to do whatever and is trying to fix the issues but sometimes there is no solution.

As far as collectibility...NO ONE knows.....Who would have ever thought that the Ugly Dickling ( Mustang ) would have been popular 40 years later and there have been a lot of other cars that people swore up and down would be worth some money later on and were sadly mistaken.

Get your car taken care of it and enjoy it.....As Mama use to say..."This too shall pass"

[SonnyakaPig]

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

If you lawyer up the help you are getting may quickly cease......I kno wit is a PITA but let them try to fix it...if they can't then you have the Lemon Law to fall back on...Is is a PITA? Well of course it is.

You must remember that this is a production car made with production parts and sometimes...things just happen. It doesn't make it any easier to deal with or make you feel any better but it will get resolved one way or another.

This was the case when the 5th Gen was launched and the whole transmssion tail shaft failure came out...People thought the world was coming to an end but GM took care of it...Were there some problems? Sure there was but in time the situation was rectified.

OP I know you are pissed to be dealing with this and I would be too BUT all that being pissed does...well is make you pissed and does not solve the issues you are having.

It sounds like the dealer is a good one and willing to do whatever and is trying to fix the issues but sometimes there is no solution.

As far as collectibility...NO ONE knows.....Who would have ever thought that the Ugly Dickling ( Mustang ) would have been popular 40 years later and there have been a lot of other cars that people swore up and down would be worth some money later on and were sadly mistaken.

Get your car taken care of it and enjoy it.....As Mama use to say..."This too shall pass"

It's not as simple as "lawyering up..." A lawyer would first have to decide whether you have a viable claim before they would accept a case. It may be too early for that. But, the consumer should know there rights and to be prepared given how difficult auto manufacturers can be. Chevy doesn't take these things personal. It's business.

[Russell James]

Sounds like they need a tech that is better at oil leak diagnosis. All this time and they don't know if it is a seal or block porosity? Those two are very easy to distinguish apart by an experienced tech. I'd bet they are leaving the dye in too long before checking it.... then it's all over the place and no way to see the root cause leak.

Here is how you really do it. Clean everything meticulously, black light check to make sure there is no dye anywhere. Run engine a very short time, light check. Keep running engine progressively longer until the first weeping of dye is seen. It may involve taking the trans out a few times, but that is what it takes. The belly pan throws in a wrinkle because that causes weird air flow that can throw oil upward. The origin of the leak could be high, low, or off to the side.

Do it that way and the source of the leak should be found in one day. Drive it all over the place until there is oil everywhere, and they will just be chasing their tail and guessing what is leaking.

[Dr Jkel]

Oh I agree with knowing all you can know about certain subjects...but , and I may be wrong, Lemon Laws are pretty cut and dry......If it is 4 visits and/or 30 days then that is what is needed. I am no lawyer but to me if Chevy/Gm or whomever is trying to fix the problem then give them the chance. IF the repairs are not up to your standard then complain. If they replaces the entire drivetrain and it fixes the issue then they have completed their obligation by the law.IMO

Does it still make you mad that you had a brand new car that the entire drive train that had to be replaced..Well sure it does. Sometimes things just break and it sucks really bad when they do.

Just imagine if it had been modded all the troubles that he would be going through.

I truly believe GM/Chevy will do the right thing in this case, maybe I am being naive but I really think they will when all is said and done.

[dkg11]

Originally Posted by bumblebeecamaro

Damn man, that sucks. I'd tell the dealership to keep that car and order you another.

Honestly you should... if i just ordered a ZL1 i would expect it to be in pristine condition no matter what anyone says throwing spare parts doesnt make it the same as the original

[CAM ZL1]

After waiting most of today, I decided to give the dealership service manager a call to see about any progress. He informed me that the car has not been looked into, let alone worked on since last Friday. He was in contact with the GM service manager, who authorized the order of a replacement crate motor, which he was quite certain didn't include the supercharger assembly. He said that delivery would be either Thursday or Friday from somewhere in Ohio.

I asked if the engineer previously consulted or any engineer was coming to the dealership and what he responded was quite shocking. The GM engineer he had talked with said explicitly, "The LSA engine block has known porosity issues and an engineer doesn't need to oversee the process." Given the fact that the service tech found no existing bulletins on any source of oil leaks in a ZL1 or LSA motor, it seems like Chevy and GM are trying to keep secret what is internally a known issue.

I asked about getting the damaged exhaust replaced, as can be seen in the photos on page 1, the oil did quite severe damage. The dealership service manager said he inquired with the GM service manager about replacement, and he responded toward the side of cleaning it. At this point, I think that the oil burns on the exhaust warrant a replacement along with another new flywheel if scoring is present, which I stressed to the service manager.

With the delivery date of sometime this week, the estimated time of repair (best case scenario) is set at next Wednesday. By which the car will have been in for service 21 days of the 40 since I took delivery. It will be interesting whether this porosity issue rears its head anywhere else or if GM does already know the situation and is trying to keep it as quiet as possible. At this point, I am at the mercy of GM and as many people have pointed out, they seem to be trying to resolve my problem as cheaply as possible.