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Old 04-05-2013, 10:52 AM   #491
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
Well said Norm....

...and I have decided to go after the Z/28 just because of what the gut level, seat of the pants feel will be. The emphasis is on raw performance and it's feedback. Camaro Nirvana.....without the additives....


You'll want to keep your eyes peeled for allocations and all that business...it might get rough, because there are even fewer of these expected to sell than ZL1s...
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:36 AM   #492
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Did GM miss the ball with this car? Well let's see-

I have a deposit down on a new Z/28 and I've never considered owning a GM car previously in my 52 year life. I do 10-20 track days per year, am a SCCA TT/PDX driving instructor, and have owned and tracked Porsche GT3's and GT2's for years.

The new Z/28 should be just as fast as the 997 generation of GT3's (so-called .1 and .2's) street tire vs street tire. It'll be slower than the GT3 to be released late this year, the 991, which is now basically a robot (a la Nissan GT-R) with rear wheel steering, PDK trans, an electronic diff, and non-track seats.

For those of us who seek a direct, visceral driving experience in a car that comes OE with most all the options that are critical for hard tracking (and none of the ones that aren't), the Z/28 is an amazing value even if it comes in at $70k. On top of that you have a company that warranties it for on-track use! That is insane.

The one, single downside of course is the weight. The girl is beautiful inside and out but she is very plump. I am a big fan of Trofeos and burned through many sets- they are super sticky and progressive as they let go and this car will eat those tire$ in three track days, four if you are a six or seven tenth's driver. The marketing implies it is stiffly sprung (coilovers baby!) so I suppose you could pop a set of R6's on and go harass some 'Vette guys most of whom are point and shoot drivers

Bottom line, I'm shocked, stunned that GM made this car. They did it right and the GM people talk to their enthusiasts...heck on this forum! I love that interaction, it's honest and courageous and other than maybe the Viper guys and the Corvette guys, no other manufacturer that I am aware of has the balls to do this.

GM hit the ball out of the park and into orbit with this car. I get it and appreciate it and am thrilled to put my money where my mouth is and buy one (w A/C delete).

From the track enthusiasts- Thanks GM! WOW
Love to hear that!!!
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:02 PM   #493
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After all the justifiable weight reductions and eliminated interior features, I wonder why ON-Star survived the cut...I noticed it still had the shark-fin...If it's still there, why wasn't it included in the mix for weight reduction?

As the car is touted as a track-only, purpose built car....just wondering, what's the point of it?
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:18 PM   #494
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It's probably a contract deal that On Star goes in every Camaro.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:20 PM   #495
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After all the justifiable weight reductions and eliminated interior features, I wonder why ON-Star survived the cut...I noticed it still had the shark-fin...If it's still there, why wasn't it included in the mix for weight reduction?

As the car is touted as a track-only, purpose built car....just wondering, what's the point of it?
My guess is radio communications with pit crew and/or GPS functionality for on-board data telemetry systems.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:23 PM   #496
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It's probably a contract deal that On Star goes in every Camaro.
Ok...just sayin' don't think it's in COPOs or the Body-in-White cars, as they are not street legal, perhaps...

...But if the Z/28 has it, perhaps it's a sign that it may show up on the streets more than one might think.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:40 PM   #497
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Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
After all the justifiable weight reductions and eliminated interior features, I wonder why ON-Star survived the cut...I noticed it still had the shark-fin...If it's still there, why wasn't it included in the mix for weight reduction?

As the car is touted as a track-only, purpose built car....just wondering, what's the point of it?
Safety, standard in all GM vehicles?

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My guess is radio communications with pit crew and/or GPS functionality for on-board data telemetry systems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
Ok...just sayin' don't think it's in COPOs or the Body-in-White cars, as they are not street legal, perhaps...

...But if the Z/28 has it, perhaps it's a sign that it may show up on the streets more than one might think.
Well, it's very street drivable, as Mark Steilow alluded to...and obviously, it'll be in showrooms, so it's very "street-legal".

Whether one would choose to drive it every day is another story, and at the low numbers it'll likely sell at, I wonder if we'll ever notice...

(at the very least I'd put different wheels/tires on it if it were my car, because those suckers are going to wear out quick.)
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:02 PM   #498
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My guess is radio communications with pit crew and/or GPS functionality for on-board data telemetry systems.
Exactly!...lol...

...My guess is GM is gonna secretly spy on all these Z/28s to know what really goes on...lol...
...The temptation to collect information, research and data will be just too great to resist with these puppies!...lol

J/K!!!...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:09 AM   #499
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After reading a few posts - I simply came here to respond to a couple of them because I realized that too many people don't understand what the original intent of the Z/28 really was.......:

go back and read the history of WHY the Z28 was introduced in the first place.

Don't 'guess' and don't try to 'interpret' - because some of us were actually around back then! (I didn't mean that as a shot -- but.......)

Tidbit: the 1967 Z28 didn't have Z28 anywhere on the car - it was simply an option code (RPO) that essentially said: "This is the car we're building to compete in SCCA's Trans Am racing series. All others beware!" It was not meant to be a daily driver - and this new Z/28 is not meant to be a daily driver. it will "separate the men from the boys" so to speak....... If you want comfort -- this is not the car for you.....


We stayed true to the original intent. Want a stereo radio? Go buy a ZL1 or a
1LE or an SS and make mods.

The Z/28 is essentially a race car.

Sorry that some of you don't like that.....but we have to make hard decisions and I stand behind this Z/28 'til the cows come home.

I don't like to be this abrupt - but I'm operating on very little sleep - it's been a long week -- and frankly my patience is running a bit thin with people who don't understand what a Z/28 really is meant to be........


(....oh - and for those of you who are nay-sayers? I wish you could have heard the remarks about the new Z/28 - people at the unveil were blown away.......)
What I do not get is why did GM decide to make this car street legal?
Ford has a 2 mustangs the 302R (i think this is the name) and the Cobra Jet. Chevy already launched the COPO to compete with the Cobra Jet so why not make the Z28 a track only car.

Better yet use a different name for a track only car and let Steilow go nuts with that.

I was excited the Z28 would have been the LS7 in a basic 1LE package for the street. But i think they let their pro touring guys have too much free reign.

Its a cool car but if this thing is over 60k it makes the corvette more appealing.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:21 AM   #500
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What I do not get is why did GM decide to make this car street legal?
Can you think of a better way to top the Boss LS than to do it up in overdog street legal fashion?


Quote:
Ford has a 2 mustangs the 302R (i think this is the name)
The Boss 302R currently list at something like $135k. That's at least two steps further up the food chain, in ZR1/Viper GTS country - and to think people are whining at a mere $70k . . .


Quote:
I was excited the Z28 would have been the LS7 in a basic 1LE package for the street. But i think they let their pro touring guys have too much free reign.
If anything, the Pro-Touring attitude helped keep the Z/28 street legal.


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Old 04-09-2013, 09:36 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by 90503 View Post
Exactly!...lol...

...My guess is GM is gonna secretly spy on all these Z/28s to know what really goes on...lol...
...The temptation to collect information, research and data will be just too great to resist with these puppies!...lol

J/K!!!...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
lol yeah, people who don't race don't understand what's really needed on the track. The team owners, pit crews and drivers absolutely want to collect information, research and data on what's happening with their car lap after lap so they can manage and improve the performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris632 View Post
What I do not get is why did GM decide to make this car street legal?
Ford has a 2 mustangs the 302R (i think this is the name) and the Cobra Jet. Chevy already launched the COPO to compete with the Cobra Jet so why not make the Z28 a track only car.

Better yet use a different name for a track only car and let Steilow go nuts with that.

I was excited the Z28 would have been the LS7 in a basic 1LE package for the street. But i think they let their pro touring guys have too much free reign.

Its a cool car but if this thing is over 60k it makes the corvette more appealing.
In order to run in production classes, you can only enter that class in a car that's a true street-legal production car. The manufacturer has to produce a certain amount of cars for the street to qualify it as a production car. This rule is to prevent sandbagging by manufacturers or teams who would try to run something ridiculous against a genuine street car so they can win.

The original Z/28 was created to qualify the Camaro to allow it to run in the Trans Am series. After Mark Donohue drove it and won the championship, it and Chevy gained a lot of status/reputation/prestige and that helped to sell Camaros. This new Z/28 is going to do the same thing.

You don't need an expensive LS7 in a 1LE to get the performance of 500 hp in a 1LE. The LS3 can be easily modded to raise it's crank horsepower from 426 to 500 and then you have exactly the performance you'd get with an LS7 and it would be MUCH cheaper.

What you wouldn't have is the Z/28 logo on the side which ONLY has the prestige it has because of race cars with that logo winning races. I get the feeling a lot of people are upset because they wanted to drive around in a status symbol without truly realizing how and why it's a status symbol in the first place. Would people want to wear a Kobe Bryant jersey if he hadn't been a star player on a championship team?

The new Z/28 is a championship car built to win championships, and it will. THEN you'll see the Z28 package in a few years that will capitalize on the reputation the race car achieved, and that package will be in the price range most people will want. The Camaro with the Z28 package will not be the same as the Z/28 car; and it won't cost the same either. It would probably be mostly an appearance package added to a 1LE with an increase in power.

This new Z/28 has to be exactly what it is in order to achieve what it has to achieve. They did it right and it's going to become a new legend in racing. And that high profile image is exactly what Chevy needs because that brings in sales, which brings in money for development and improvements which benefits us the customer. Even though the new Z is going to be expensive, this is a very very good thing that's happening.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:14 PM   #502
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..both good posts Norm and Doc......... "What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday"...... manufacturers supporting sanctioned racing are returning to that philosophy. FWI, the COO of Ford said over the weekend at Barrett-Jackson the Boss is discontinued, holding true to Ford's 2 year only production promise. We have only just begun with the Z/28....
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Old 04-09-2013, 01:03 PM   #503
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In order to run in production classes, you can only enter that class in a car that's a true street-legal production car. The manufacturer has to produce a certain amount of cars for the street to qualify it as a production car. This rule is to prevent sandbagging by manufacturers or teams who would try to run something ridiculous against a genuine street car so they can win.

The original Z/28 was created to qualify the Camaro to allow it to run in the Trans Am series. After Mark Donohue drove it and won the championship, it and Chevy gained a lot of status/reputation/prestige and that helped to sell Camaros. This new Z/28 is going to do the same thing.

You don't need an expensive LS7 in a 1LE to get the performance of 500 hp in a 1LE. The LS3 can be easily modded to raise it's crank horsepower from 426 to 500 and then you have exactly the performance you'd get with an LS7 and it would be MUCH cheaper.

What you wouldn't have is the Z/28 logo on the side which ONLY has the prestige it has because of race cars with that logo winning races. I get the feeling a lot of people are upset because they wanted to drive around in a status symbol without truly realizing how and why it's a status symbol in the first place. Would people want to wear a Kobe Bryant jersey if he hadn't been a star player on a championship team?

The new Z/28 is a championship car built to win championships, and it will. THEN you'll see the Z28 package in a few years that will capitalize on the reputation the race car achieved, and that package will be in the price range most people will want. The Camaro with the Z28 package will not be the same as the Z/28 car; and it won't cost the same either. It would probably be mostly an appearance package added to a 1LE with an increase in power.

This new Z/28 has to be exactly what it is in order to achieve what it has to achieve. They did it right and it's going to become a new legend in racing. And that high profile image is exactly what Chevy needs because that brings in sales, which brings in money for development and improvements which benefits us the customer. Even though the new Z is going to be expensive, this is a very very good thing that's happening.
Now production run classes - is there a minimum build and does it have to be street legal?

NHRA requires 50 cars to qualify as a "stocker" - hence only 50 Cobra jets and Drag paks. GM built 69 COPOs but that was their choice.

If that is the case then just build to the requirements and go nuts. Call that the Z28.

I mean the Z28 name plate means very little to me. For a couple of reasons it seems the previous generations it was just tossed onto cars that had the V8. I was born in 1980 and without reading history the Z28 means very little. Another reason was that the previous generation the SS was the king now it seems to be the entry level V8

If GM is trying to revive the classic part of the Z28 that is fine. I just think they should have went all out and made a competitive track only car.

As for 500hp from an LS3. Yes this is easily achieved but once again i would have preferred not to do engine mods to get this. I drove a couple of Z06s with the LS7 and just love the engine as it is. I would prefer a Camaro with the LS7 with the 1LE track option and price it in the 40s.

The Boss LS was mentioned above. Well the Laguna Seca was also listed at 48k new. Im sure there was markup from dealers but still. If speculation is correct and this is a 60k plus Camaro then i think GM did more to ruin the Camaro then help it.

I know if i wanted a track car id run right over to the Boss and pocket the 12k difference.

I am a younger buyer. Was going to pull the trigger on a 1LE this summer until i started hearing rumors of the Z28 with the LS7. Now that i see what it is - im not so sure. I will withold further judgement until pricing/availability is released
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:34 PM   #504
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The Boss LS was mentioned above. Well the Laguna Seca was also listed at 48k new. Im sure there was markup from dealers but still. If speculation is correct and this is a 60k plus Camaro then i think GM did more to ruin the Camaro then help it.

I know if i wanted a track car id run right over to the Boss and pocket the 12k difference.
To compete with the Boss, get the Camaro 1LE for le$$. The Boss LS is 1 or 2 Camaros removed from the Z/28 as far as track performance is concerned. So I suppose you get what you pay for - be it Camaro or Mustang.
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