GILMOUR's 427 LSX Detroit-Muscle [COTW 4/16/12]

[Kyle.Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Darth_Emma

The great customer service is why I decided to get a DSS 9" kit too.

I know a guy with a 12 bolt in his shop ;-)
unfortunatly... not mine. hahaha

[Dangeruss]

Still think you need to look at the Lingenfelter 9.5". Specifically made for our cars by the same company that designed the factory rear end. Of course the axles are still DSS.

[Kyle.Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Dangeruss

Still think you need to look at the Lingenfelter 9.5". Specifically made for our cars by the same company that designed the factory rear end. Of course the axles are still DSS.

yea... i may look at it again.. but the price point on that was quite a bit higher if i remember correctly.

if I had Houston money maybe it would look a little more appealing!

[Darth_Emma]

Originally Posted by Kyle.Gilmour

yea... i may look at it again.. but the price point on that was quite a bit higher if i remember correctly.

if I had Houston money maybe it would look a little more appealing!

+1

Anything that says "Lingenfelter" on it is $$$. They make great stuff, but I can't justify the added expense. It's out of my league.

[Dangeruss]

I don't know that much about differentials, but I thought they weren't that far off in price.

DSS
9" Conversion Kit - $4999
Includes differential housing, axles and aluminum 1 piece driveshaft
Strange Center - $1500
I'm assuming the gears are included with the strange...not sure if anything else is needed.


Lingenfelter
9.5" differential preloaded (3.73 gears for me) - $4975
DSS 1400HP axles - $1500
Driveshaft - $999

I didn't purchase their driveshaft...had one custom made (and saved money).

The piece I also don't know about is labor. Since the Lingenfelter is specifically made for the Camaro installation is supposedly easy.

Not sure if the DSS requires any extra labor to put everything together.

[Darth_Emma]

Originally Posted by Dangeruss

I don't know that much about differentials, but I thought they weren't that far off in price.

DSS
9" Conversion Kit - $4999
Includes differential housing, axles and aluminum 1 piece driveshaft
Strange Center - $1500
I'm assuming the gears are included with the strange...not sure if anything else is needed.


Lingenfelter
9.5" differential preloaded (3.73 gears for me) - $4975
DSS 1400HP axles - $1500
Driveshaft - $999

I didn't purchase their driveshaft...had one custom made (and saved money).

The piece I also don't know about is labor. Since the Lingenfelter is specifically made for the Camaro installation is supposedly easy.

Not sure if the DSS requires any extra labor to put everything together.

Your cost was significantly higher than mine. I thought about the Lingenfelter, but I would have had to give up the tranny this go round to go with that rear end kit in order to stay within budget. I'm not saying yours isn't worth what you paid. I'm just saying it is out of my league (at least this year).

I think I got a great kit at a great price from DSS though. The DSS kit with the Strange center section is bolt in. No modifications needed.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by Kyle.Gilmour

I spoke with Frank at the DSS, he mentioned pretty much the same information. Frank was extremely helpful and generous. He said if I want I can send the axels back to him, he would repack and reband them for me.

He said there is a lot of grease in there though, since the boots not ripped I should try to retighten all the bolts and it may help out. (to 57lbs)
This is more of a temporary fix... but since I will be getting either the DSS 9in or the 12 bolt hammerhead this summer, Frank said these will be fine until then, and will gladly work with me to trade them in when I order the rear end.

so, guess that is some good info for others.

Out of curiosity, how does a 9" or 12bolt stop the vehicle from squatting down, with lowered springs installed?

Originally Posted by Darth_Emma

+1

Anything that says "Lingenfelter" on it is $$$. They make great stuff, but I can't justify the added expense. It's out of my league.

Especially when any good performance installer can put together an equal or better kit.

If I can't get what I want from one particular vendor I just have my installer work with me to plan the kit I want.
For example I may want a 9" or 9.5" housing, with 4.10+centre, strange pumpkin, and GForce 35spline axles, with a DSS driveshaft. Or different combination.

My understanding of the benefit of going with a 9" system is that it's the strongest most copied system that has the most customizations because there are so many compatible parts available for them.

I think a lot of people get stuck on vendor loyalties vs looking at requirements and getting better value for their money.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Out of curiosity, how does a 9" or 12bolt stop the vehicle from squatting down, with lowered springs installed?

It doesn't. The differential in an IRS remains in the same position while the half shafts move in relation to control arm articulation. There is some motion in the differential to the extent the bushings allow, but theoretically the differential doesn't move.

Spring and damping rate control squat in an IRS.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

It doesn't. The differential in an IRS remains in the same position while the half shafts move in relation to control arm articulation. There is some motion in the differential to the extent the bushings allow, but theoretically the differential doesn't move.

Spring and damping rate control squat in an IRS.

So, if I'm understanding the response correctly. The problem may still be apparent with a 9" system unless the vehicle is put back to the original stock stance?

[Darth_Emma]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Out of curiosity, how does a 9" or 12bolt stop the vehicle from squatting down, with lowered springs installed?

I defer to Pete who is the expert. But, my understanding is that the benefit of the 9" kit is strength to withstand high rwhp. I am having it installed because I want to reduce the risk of breaking axles, the driveshaft, or the gears in the differential.

I saw a DSS 9" kit at IPS that they had just installed in a Camaro and the components look MUCH bigger than the stock parts. It looks really beefy.

The downside of a 9" kit is that it will reduce effective rwhp (Another downside is the expense of buying and installing it.)

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by Darth_Emma

I defer to Pete who is the expert. But, my understanding is that the benefit of the 9" kit is strength to withstand high rwhp. I am having it installed because I want to reduce the risk of breaking axles, the driveshaft, or the gears in the differential.

I saw a DSS 9" kit at IPS that they had just installed in a Camaro and the components look MUCH bigger than the stock parts. It looks really beefy.

The downside of a 9" kit is that it will reduce effective rwhp (Another downside is the expense of buying and installing it.)

That's what I thought. But, don't see how it may help reduce the vehicle from squatting in the back and spraying the grease, if the cause is lowering the vehicle.
Changing to a 9" is not going to strengthen the springs. Just my opinion.
Logicaly it makes sense that if you lower the vehicle you change the angle, and when things shift around you may be exceeding the flex of some rubber boots or something and exposing the grease.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

So, if I'm understanding the response correctly. The problem may still be apparent with a 9" system unless the vehicle is put back to the original stock stance?

If we are talking about half-shaft angle and heat OE ride height or high temp lube are the solutions. With increased RWHP, better brakes and better tires compared to OE I would still opt for repacking OEM shafts with high temp lube even at OE ride height. With aftermarket shafts I would contact the MFG and verify what lube is in my shafts and repack if necessary.

Originally Posted by Darth_Emma

I defer to Pete who is the expert. But, my understanding is that the benefit of the 9" kit is strength to withstand high rwhp. I am having it installed because I want to reduce the risk of breaking axles, the driveshaft, or the gears in the differential.

I saw a DSS 9" kit at IPS that they had just installed in a Camaro and the components look MUCH bigger than the stock parts. It looks really beefy.

The downside of a 9" kit is that it will reduce effective rwhp (Another downside is the expense of buying and installing it.)

D_E I defer to you in all matters of high RWHP these days

[Dangeruss]

Originally Posted by Darth_Emma

Your cost was significantly higher than mine. I thought about the Lingenfelter, but I would have had to give up the tranny this go round to go with that rear end kit in order to stay within budget. I'm not saying yours isn't worth what you paid. I'm just saying it is out of my league (at least this year).

I think I got a great kit at a great price from DSS though. The DSS kit with the Strange center section is bolt in. No modifications needed.

If the pricing for your builder was more aggressive on the DSS that makes sense...I just knew their retails weren't that far off.

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Especially when any good performance installer can put together an equal or better kit.

If I can't get what I want from one particular vendor I just have my installer work with me to plan the kit I want.
For example I may want a 9" or 9.5" housing, with 4.10+centre, strange pumpkin, and GForce 35spline axles, with a DSS driveshaft. Or different combination.

My understanding of the benefit of going with a 9" system is that it's the strongest most copied system that has the most customizations because there are so many compatible parts available for them.

I think a lot of people get stuck on vendor loyalties vs looking at requirements and getting better value for their money.

Completely disagree with most everything in this post...I'll just leave it at that.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by Dangeruss

Completely disagree with most everything in this post...I'll just leave it at that.

It's okay you don't have to agree with any of it but at the very least educate me on where I'm incorrect in my assessment of selecting components for a 9" rear. Otherwise, your dis-agreement doesn't matter.