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Old 02-07-2018, 08:50 PM   #561
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Originally Posted by Gunkk View Post
Molds wear out and have to be replaced. Why not make improvements when the opportunity presents instead of throwing new cap-ex money at old designs...?
My observations over many years is that Midcycle refresh typically is never radical enough to require new crash testing or EPA certification (the 2018 Mustang GT practically new engine may be a rare exception). So Camaro refresh wouldn't be beyond front and rear clips, interior changes that don't affect crash contact points, and colors. The rumored underrating of engines has validity, in that the refresh can claim X more horsepower without the need to re certify the engine. "Advertised hp" and "official SAE rated horsepower" are not always the same. Sometimes they say "SAE hp of at least XXX".

I would have loved to have seen the Camaro refresh attempt to design the doors to lower the sill point, while still being integrated well with the fender lines and a redesigned dash to lower the height of the instrument binnacle to create an illusion of a lower cowl without needing to re-engineer the major hardpoints of the structure...but, alas, that would probably require costly side and front impact testing to make sure the doors didn't weaken in the process, and the new dash layout was still crash-worthy.
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Old 02-08-2018, 07:35 AM   #562
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Originally Posted by draph View Post
My observations over many years is that Midcycle refresh typically is never radical enough to require new crash testing or EPA certification (the 2018 Mustang GT practically new engine may be a rare exception). So Camaro refresh wouldn't be beyond front and rear clips, interior changes that don't affect crash contact points, and colors. The rumored underrating of engines has validity, in that the refresh can claim X more horsepower without the need to re certify the engine. "Advertised hp" and "official SAE rated horsepower" are not always the same. Sometimes they say "SAE hp of at least XXX".

I would have loved to have seen the Camaro refresh attempt to design the doors to lower the sill point, while still being integrated well with the fender lines and a redesigned dash to lower the height of the instrument binnacle to create an illusion of a lower cowl without needing to re-engineer the major hardpoints of the structure...but, alas, that would probably require costly side and front impact testing to make sure the doors didn't weaken in the process, and the new dash layout was still crash-worthy.
Pretty good observations. The only thing I would say differently is that EPA fuel economy and emissions certification is pretty much an annual adventure, though most of the time companies can self-certify. Changes in content that affect mass can change results of EPA testing. Changing wheels can drive new certification. Ford's dual fuel set-up will more than likely trigger having EPA test it themselves, both to verify Ford's self certification and to get a measure of how much it contributes to fuel economy and emissions so they can add it to their modeling algorithms.

But you are definitely correct that anything that requires bending metal is usually shied away from during mid-cycles UNLESS there are also new powertrain options. At GM we called those "Mid-Cyle with Powertrain (creative, right?) and they could cost almost as much as a major upgrade, depending on what was being done to the powertrain.
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:18 PM   #563
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
Pretty good observations. The only thing I would say differently is that EPA fuel economy and emissions certification is pretty much an annual adventure, though most of the time companies can self-certify. Changes in content that affect mass can change results of EPA testing. Changing wheels can drive new certification. Ford's dual fuel set-up will more than likely trigger having EPA test it themselves, both to verify Ford's self certification and to get a measure of how much it contributes to fuel economy and emissions so they can add it to their modeling algorithms.

But you are definitely correct that anything that requires bending metal is usually shied away from during mid-cycles UNLESS there are also new powertrain options. At GM we called those "Mid-Cyle with Powertrain (creative, right?) and they could cost almost as much as a major upgrade, depending on what was being done to the powertrain.
Didn't think the EPA was as strict as it used to be with Rick Perry at the helm. Lol
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:23 AM   #564
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Reminds me a little of the Iroc style...
Sorry but I highly doubt it's going to look like the Irocs that outer camo just looks like a funky box to throw people off.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:31 AM   #565
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2019 refresh or Gen 7 ?
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:11 AM   #566
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2019 refresh or Gen 7 ?
Looks like it would be a 7. But it looks to still be able to be done on the current model. Looks good too.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:12 AM   #567
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Is it just me or does it look like they got rid of the plasti-chrome around the instrument binacle? Looks more like a gunmetal grey (I wish they would do this).
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:13 AM   #568
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2019 refresh or Gen 7 ?
Gen 6 design concept sketch.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:07 PM   #569
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Gen 6 design concept sketch.
Yeah, that's what I was going to guess. Notice that rear bumper line that did make it into the 6th gen design that nobody likes and looks to be gone from the refresh camo cars.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:36 PM   #570
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Gen 6 design concept sketch.
This.

I remember it from a long while back.
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:21 PM   #571
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Is it just me or does it look like they got rid of the plasti-chrome around the instrument binacle? Looks more like a gunmetal grey (I wish they would do this).
My only real gripe with any of the interior stuff is the plastichrome trim pieces.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:48 PM   #572
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My only real gripe with any of the interior stuff is the plastichrome trim pieces.
Idk, I kinda like it. My RAM has the same stuff. It doesn't really look chrome. Looks kinda like polished stainless. I dont think it is trying to emulate anything. A little too grey to look like chrome or polished metal. Just adds a different texture and look against all the matte stuff. I guess they could use Piano Black, but that's just a fancy way to describe gloss black plastic. Its a Camaro, not a Mercedes... lol sure, would i rather have real metal, wood, or carbon? Yup, but not if that means id have to pay $60k for a Camaro. Looks a heck of a lot better than the real fake chrome used in the 1960s cars. My 65 chevelle had an entire dash gauge bezel insert made from plastic chrome.

Regardless, the 6th gen interior is far superior to anything Chevy offered in a Camaro previously. When all the other American car companies stepped up their game, Chevy was last in line.

That is one of the main reasons I wasn't even considering a Camaro. I was shocked at how nice it was when i saw it in person given how low my expectations were. I do wish my gauge panel was centered in the dash though and it didn't have a gap on the left side... lol
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:09 PM   #573
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Originally Posted by Cgocifer View Post
Idk, I kinda like it. My RAM has the same stuff. It doesn't really look chrome. Looks kinda like polished stainless. I dont think it is trying to emulate anything. A little too grey to look like chrome or polished metal. Just adds a different texture and look against all the matte stuff. I guess they could use Piano Black, but that's just a fancy way to describe gloss black plastic. Its a Camaro, not a Mercedes... lol sure, would i rather have real metal, wood, or carbon? Yup, but not if that means id have to pay $60k for a Camaro. Looks a heck of a lot better than the real fake chrome used in the 1960s cars. My 65 chevelle had an entire dash gauge bezel insert made from plastic chrome.

Regardless, the 6th gen interior is far superior to anything Chevy offered in a Camaro previously. When all the other American car companies stepped up their game, Chevy was last in line.

That is one of the main reasons I wasn't even considering a Camaro. I was shocked at how nice it was when i saw it in person given how low my expectations were. I do wish my gauge panel was centered in the dash though and it didn't have a gap on the left side... lol
I wish they'd get rid of the faux chrome stuff too. I like the way it looks but it's so blinding when the sun hits it just right. I don't like when my car blinds me
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:14 PM   #574
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Go look at the Kia (yep Kia) Stinger. Real metal not fake painted plastic. Starts in the low 30s and TOPS OUT at $52,000. That interior is very nice and it's pretty much in the Camaro price range.

You guys are letting GM off the hook if you think it's ok to have a $40,000 plus Camaro with low rent plastic and trim.

This has been GM's problem for years. At mid to upper 20's, the interior on the Camaro is really pretty good. For a $40,000 and up car? Not so much. GM has done that for years, put an interior that for the base car price point is pretty solid but then option the car up to, in the case of the Camaro, $70,000 and it really is far from competitive. Yes, the performance is a bargain. But if you pay $70,000 for a car you really aught to be able to expect a $70,000 interior. And that means E-class Mercedes......er ooops GM doesn't know how to do that in a Cadillac. How about at least a Cadillac then, lol.

I dearly remember my Saturn Sky Redline. For the base $19,000 car it was awesome. But the Redline stickered at $36,000. For $3,000 more you could get an Audi TT that had a wonderful interior. The Saturn? Hard plastic everywhere with a touch of piano black to differentiate it from the Pontiac. For the most part, I really loved that car and wish I still had it. But it's an example of how GM does interiors for the base price point but doesn't consider the top end of the line.
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