Alignment Help Thread

[JCunningham]

the rear camber is -0.2 left .1 right. i think he said thats as close to 0 as he could get it. I gave him what Justice Pete posted 235 and the sheet i posted in 236 and told him to chose what would be better for a street car. Does it need to be changed?

[Rob@WretchedMS]

I was looking at the chart where you mentioned the aggressive street, which is not what you had it aligned to, didn't look back farther.

The alignment you have is more geared to drag racing,

[JCunningham]

looking for a street road track set up. I dont have any road tracks close enough for me to go to regularly. We do have Leichester drag strip but I like road track. So what he did is my fault if its not what I wanted right. I think what he did was take the 2 sheets and changed the differences.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by JCunningham

looking for a street road track set up. I dont have any road tracks close enough for me to go to regularly. We do have Leichester drag strip but I like road track. So what he did is my fault if its not what I wanted right. I think what he did was take the 2 sheets and changed the differences.

The key question is how does it drive now?

[JCunningham]

like its on rails. but i dont know what im missing. so as long as im not ruining the tires im good?

[cornerspeed92]

I looked but it seems all the info is on a standard SS, or with Pedders. This car stuff is all new to me. I seem to be tearing up my edges, and am not being able to use all of the tread on my tire. What track specs would be good for my 1LE ?

[LS1hawk]

I've held off doing any suspension mods to my car because I know my area doesn't really have anywhere that I really trusted to get it aligned properly once it was lowered. I finally broke down when Apex picked up the Pfadt line and bought a set of their lowering springs for my 2011 SS. I took to a local place hoping they could get it dialed in. I think I would have been better off doing it in my garage the old way.

I read through this thread twice looking over all of the information so I was prepared with my specs and any other information they may have needed. After two hours of waiting they tell me they couldn't get the right rear adjusted and they had to charge me for a camber adjusting bolt to get the front right in spec. AAAAAHHhHHHHH, I should have printed out the bold red statement from JusticePete that stated you do not need one of those and how to do it properly.

Can anyone tell me the major concerns they see with the alignment I'm posting below? Thanks!! And Rob@Wretched, it sounds crazy but I may be making a three hour drive to you to get me dialed in and to make installing these springs worth it.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by JCunningham

like its on rails. but i dont know what im missing. so as long as im not ruining the tires im good?

You are good to go!

Originally Posted by cornerspeed92

I looked but it seems all the info is on a standard SS, or with Pedders. This car stuff is all new to me. I seem to be tearing up my edges, and am not being able to use all of the tread on my tire. What track specs would be good for my 1LE ?

Please post pictures of your tire wear and identify them front and rear,

Originally Posted by LS1hawk

I've held off doing any suspension mods to my car because I know my area doesn't really have anywhere that I really trusted to get it aligned properly once it was lowered. I finally broke down when Apex picked up the Pfadt line and bought a set of their lowering springs for my 2011 SS. I took to a local place hoping they could get it dialed in. I think I would have been better off doing it in my garage the old way.

I read through this thread twice looking over all of the information so I was prepared with my specs and any other information they may have needed. After two hours of waiting they tell me they couldn't get the right rear adjusted and they had to charge me for a camber adjusting bolt to get the front right in spec. AAAAAHHhHHHHH, I should have printed out the bold red statement from JusticePete that stated you do not need one of those and how to do it properly.

Can anyone tell me the major concerns they see with the alignment I'm posting below? Thanks!! And Rob@Wretched, it sounds crazy but I may be making a three hour drive to you to get me dialed in and to make installing these springs worth it.

#1 get rid of the front camber bolts. They are not as strong as the OEM bolts and tell me the shop had no idea on how to align a Camaro. There is a threaded hole in the knuckle for a 10mm 1.5 pitch bolt. You screw in the bolt with the clevis bolts loose to decrease negative camber and unscrew it to increase negative camber.

#2 in the rear the camber and toe adjustments work against each other as though they were in an A style / wishbone arm. To set rear camber the tech should loosen and move the toe adjustment bolts to the neutral position (the eccentric bolt heads / washer ride against metal fences. neutral means the eccentric is not touching the fence on either side). Once the camber is set, the tech starts on the toe. The tech continues to work one against the other to get the best result.

#3 with only 0.01 toe in the rear high speed straight line stability is compromised. The rear toe should be set IN 0.12 degrees per side with a total of 0.24 IN.

Go back to the shop. Give them my name, email and phone number. I'll walk them through the correct way to align your Camaro.

Pete Basica
616.834.8100
peter.basica@apispeed.com

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

#1 get rid of the front camber bolts. They are not as strong as the OEM bolts and tell me the shop had no idea on how to align a Camaro. There is a threaded hole in the knuckle for a 10mm 1.5 pitch bolt. You screw in the bolt with the clevis bolts loose to decrease negative camber and unscrew it to increase negative camber.

I'd go a bit further and say that while that shop is probably a pretty good shop as far as aligning the average commuter/grocery-getter sedan is concerned, their experience with and level of understanding has a ways to go when it comes to aligning performance cars in general. Particularly those with suspension mods.


Part of the blame can be passed along to the thousands of enthusiasts (particularly those with other cars) who shop for camber correction on price without any other understanding at all. This feeds the shops an expectation that the crash-bolt approach to camber alignment is a good enough job. My opinion as well as Pete's and apparently the Zeta chassis' suspension engineering crew - it's not.


Norm

[Dexman1349]

A list of mods installed (or will be installed this weekend):

Pfadt sport sways & endlinks
Prothane radius arm bushing inserts
Prothane Steering rack bushing
ZL1 toe Rods
Pfadt strut tower brace
Pfadt Upper control arm bushing
Pfadt solid subframe bushing
ZL1 springs
Spohn trailing arms with del-sphere bearings
BMR outer trailing arm bushings

I want something that will complement the equipment installed for a more aggressive street use (it's a daily driver), but not so aggressive that it tears up my tires.

After comparing the Pfadt specs to the Pedders Aggressive Street specs, this is what I'm looking at:
Front camber -1.0
Front caster 8.0
Front total toe 0.0
Rear camber -0.8
Rear total toe -0.24

Thoughts?

[JusticePete]

Just a few...

Front Toe 0.00
Front Camber -1.25

Rear Toe IN 0.12
Rear Toe Total IN 0.24
Rear Camber as little negative camber as possible -0.50 or less is possible. Make sure the tech sets camber with the Toe Eccentrics in a neutral position. as he corrects Toe negative camber will increase. The goal is the least amount of negative rear camber.

[Dexman1349]

Thanks!!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Dexman1349

Thanks!!

x2

You forgot the thanks for the PM.

[Dexman1349]

Yeah, I was an idiot and couldn't find this thread. Forgot it was a sticky...

Great advice as always Pete, thanks!