Need Real Answers About HP and Fuel Pumps

[Granatelli]

OK - Simple question - I just want real answers and no theory or "I think"

How much power does your forced induction 2010 Camaro make and what are you doing about fuel flow and fuel pump

I will start. My car made 450hp and I made no fuel pump mods at all

Who has made the most power without doing a thing to the pump?

Who has made the most power by adding just a Boost-A-Pump to the stock Pump?

Who has gone into the tank and double pumped it?

Who has gone into the tank, double pumped it and then added a boost-A-Pump?

Who has gone EXTREME like what Granatelli offers - A separate surge tank that has its own pump to fed the engine – capable of way over 1000hp

[carguy]

Originally Posted by Granatelli

OK - Simple question - I just want real answers and no theory or "I think"

How much power does your forced induction 2010 Camaro make and what are you doing about fuel flow and fuel pump

I will start. My car made 450hp and I made no fuel pump mods at all

Who has made the most power without doing a thing to the pump?

Who has made the most power by adding just a Boost-A-Pump to the stock Pump?

Who has gone into the tank and double pumped it?

Who has gone into the tank, double pumped it and then added a boost-A-Pump?

Who has gone EXTREME like what Granatelli offers - A separate surge tank that has its own pump to fed the engine – capable of way over 1000hp

I am the guy you are looking for.....

What determines your need for fuel is how much air you are flowing through your engine and what Air Fuel Ratio you set your tune at.( few other variables but most are slight)

To Date...I have an L99 and an LS3 and this is where I have been and where I am going for your info...Not saying its right or wrong.

I started with Canned tunes from Magnusun on both cars But on My L99 I didn't have Headers only cat back when I did the canned tune on the Maggie so remeber that later when I show the Dyno and A/F ratios.

First My L99...

I wanted to get a tune to dial it in add some boost get rid of Active fuel management etc. Base line pull showed a really lean AFR because I added the ARH LT and Flow thru Kats after the original tune. But as you can see below we fattened the AFR as far as we could go on stock pump and managed to get a 3.6 pulley on the car. My Optimum AFR is 11.3 - 11.5. I don't want to run leaner than that since I live in a cold weather climate and a dense air charge needs more fuel.
As you can see I had to set limmiter at 6400 because things really started to lean out at the top of RPM range. I will be adding more fuel to this one as soon as I see the results from my LS3.




My LS3 had a canned tune from Magnusun as well But I had the LT Kooks and Kats as well as the Corsa exhaust on it when I ordered the blower. Their tune was pretty good and I couldn't get much more out of it except a few more ft Lbs of torque early. I could not however add any more boost I had to stay with a 3.8 pulley that came with the kit because I would have been out of fuel at 5800 RPM and that won't cut it. So...I have since installed an ADM pump system and added a 3.6 pulley and an Innovators west 10% overdrive
crank pulley so as not to have to go to a 3.4 blower pulley ( Have seen them have slip issues) I should be right at 10lbs of boost give or take. I have not yet tunned the car since the added boost and fuel system. It is sitting in the garage waiting for my retune on the 18th of May. I can tell you how I came out after that. But Bottom Line is That AFR! Don't go to lean or you will be sorry. Here is LS3 Dyno with AFR at bottom. Hop[e this helps and makes sense.

[hollywoodGU]

He lies!!! It is me you are looking for, I am Spartacus!
Haha sorry I've been up to long, time to get some rest!

[carguy]

Here is a good Thread...Check it Out

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80125

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by carguy

I am the guy you are looking for.....

What determines your need for fuel is how much air you are flowing through your engine and what Air Fuel Ratio you set your tune at.( few other variables but most are slight)

To Date...I have an L99 and an LS3 and this is where I have been and where I am going for your info...Not saying its right or wrong.

I started with Canned tunes from Magnusun on both cars But on My L99 I didn't have Headers only cat back when I did the canned tune on the Maggie so remeber that later when I show the Dyno and A/F ratios.

First My L99...

I wanted to get a tune to dial it in add some boost get rid of Active fuel management etc. Base line pull showed a really lean AFR because I added the ARH LT and Flow thru Kats after the original tune. But as you can see below we fattened the AFR as far as we could go on stock pump and managed to get a 3.6 pulley on the car. My Optimum AFR is 11.3 - 11.5. I don't want to run leaner than that since I live in a cold weather climate and a dense air charge needs more fuel.
As you can see I had to set limmiter at 6400 because things really started to lean out at the top of RPM range. I will be adding more fuel to this one as soon as I see the results from my LS3.

Attachment 121692


My LS3 had a canned tune from Magnusun as well But I had the LT Kooks and Kats as well as the Corsa exhaust on it when I ordered the blower. Their tune was pretty good and I couldn't get much more out of it except a few more ft Lbs of torque early. I could not however add any more boost I had to stay with a 3.8 pulley that came with the kit because I would have been out of fuel at 5800 RPM and that won't cut it. So...I have since installed an ADM pump system and added a 3.6 pulley and an Innovators west 10% overdrive
crank pulley so as not to have to go to a 3.4 blower pulley ( Have seen them have slip issues) I should be right at 10lbs of boost give or take. I have not yet tunned the car since the added boost and fuel system. It is sitting in the garage waiting for my retune on the 18th of May. I can tell you how I came out after that. But Bottom Line is That AFR! Don't go to lean or you will be sorry. Here is LS3 Dyno with AFR at bottom. Hop[e this helps and makes sense.

Attachment 121696

Your post hit home becuase your numbers darn near match mine - I decided to go the safe and easy route - added a surge tank and can support 180 GPH. That should keep me happy forever

[Mike Norris]

The biggest issue I have run into is that not all stock pumps are created equal.

We built two identical cars (2010 SS, M6, TVS2300, SC Cam, Headers). One made 600+ with just a BAP, but fuel pressure was just starting to give up at 5500-6000. The other would drop to 40 psi at part throttle (50%-ish) and 3000-3500 RPM.

Both recieved dual intanks and one is running safely at 610 RWHP and the other aggressively at 640-ish RWHP.

Mike Norris

[Granatelli]

I am glad I asked and I know there are several ways to do this - Like i said I am going to use a surge tank to go the safe and easy route - adding a surge tank with a real return style regulator can support 180 GPH. and is the ultimate insurance policy

[carguy]

Originally Posted by Granatelli

I am glad I asked and I know there are several ways to do this - Like i said I am going to use a surge tank to go the safe and easy route - adding a surge tank with a real return style regulator can support 180 GPH. and is the ultimate insurance policy

ADM and Jannetty Ran 1100 HP on a build they did with the ADM setup and I think Fastlane has Done 850. Or at least bench tested to 850.

But I like adding the FPCM That has two drivers meant to run deul pumps.

Again Just my opinion. But I know alot of people on here that are running fastlane pumps and have had no trouble to date.

The other is Lonnies...

Scott,

Parts have arrived, they will be $849 shipped (PayPal), or $825 shipped (cash, check, money order discount price).

I also provide tech support for my customers, something you may not get from the others.

For more information, I can be reached at (724)322-8505

9:00am-11:00pm eastern time weekdays & weekends.



Thank you for the interest.

Lonnie Pavtis

Lonnies Performance Automotive

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by carguy

ADM and Jannetty Ran 1100 HP on a build they did with the ADM setup and I think Fastlane has Done 850. Or at least bench tested to 850.

But I like adding the FPCM That has two drivers meant to run deul pumps.

Again Just my opinion. But I know alot of people on here that are running fastlane pumps and have had no trouble to date.

The other is Lonnies...

Scott,

Parts have arrived, they will be $849 shipped (PayPal), or $825 shipped (cash, check, money order discount price).

I also provide tech support for my customers, something you may not get from the others.

For more information, I can be reached at (724)322-8505

9:00am-11:00pm eastern time weekdays & weekends.



Thank you for the interest.

Lonnie Pavtis

Lonnies Performance Automotive

Nothing is cheap - I already jumped head first into my surge tank design - but for guys only looking for 800 crank I will follow your lead. My goal is more like 1500

[ADM PERFORMANCE]

Originally Posted by Granatelli

Nothing is cheap - I already jumped head first into my surge tank design - but for guys only looking for 800 crank I will follow your lead. My goal is more like 1500

We have a system that will maintain 1600 hp of fuel in the works.Does not require surge tank.

What type of fuel will you be running?

What type of injectors will you have and how many?

How much do you plan on spending o get 1500 hp?

I am curious as I am building the same thing and have an estimated cost just north of $100,000.

[speedster]

Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE

We have a system that will maintain 1600 hp of fuel in the works.Does not require surge tank.

Curious to see what that is. Factory tank(s)? line diameter - both feed and return? Maintain 85 psi at full (80%)duty cycle of at least (16) 65-83 lb injectors or (8) 120-160lb injectors? Does the fuel constantly circulate to keep it cool? Do the pump(s) run at reduced voltage during normal driving for pump longevity?

What type of fuel will you be running? 93/C-16. Do you have a quick way to drain the factory tank to replace it with high octane for racers ?

What type of injectors will you have and how many? 83/16. May cut primary injectors down to 60/65 lb

How much do you plan on spending o get 1500 hp? Done, unfortunately not inexpensive.
I am curious as I am building the same thing and have an estimated cost just north of $100,000.

Hey Andy -
The SST Camaro fuel system is done and not for the masses. The questions above are just meant to give you some things from the customer's viewpoint to think about. I have asked Cole at Fastlane similar questions.

Thanks to all of you vendors. Your different solutions to attacking a similar problem makes a better product for all Camaro enthusiasts.

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by carguy

ADM and Jannetty Ran 1100 HP on a build they did with the ADM setup and I think Fastlane has Done 850. Or at least bench tested to 850.

But I like adding the FPCM That has two drivers meant to run deul pumps.

Again Just my opinion. But I know alot of people on here that are running fastlane pumps and have had no trouble to date.

The other is Lonnies...

Scott,

Parts have arrived, they will be $849 shipped (PayPal), or $825 shipped (cash, check, money order discount price).

I also provide tech support for my customers, something you may not get from the others.

We are currently building 10 cars in succession. 6 twin turbo'd, 1 Mag/Eaton TVS2300 blown and 3 with our compound set up. However all will have our new Granatelli/Duttweiler built long blocks using the new RHS 6-bolt blocks with our new CNC'd 390 cfm heads created from the LSX-LS7 6 bolt GM head cores. These motors, regardless of what power adder we bolt to them are expected to produce 900 crank hp. The compound motors are aimed at 1100 crank and the Granatelli red and black car is shooting for 1800hp.




While we all know 1800hp is just a crazy number, we are doing it to show what we are capable of and with that said we need enough fuel to be able to maintain that.

Originally Posted by carguy

For more information, I can be reached at (724)322-8505

9:00am-11:00pm Eastern Time weekdays & weekends.

Lonnie Pavtis

Lonnies Performance Automotive

We are still looking for valid operating fuel systems options for the more realistic engine power options.

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE

We have a system that will maintain 1600 hp of fuel in the works.Does not require surge tank.

What type of fuel will you be running?

What type of injectors will you have and how many?

How much do you plan on spending o get 1500 hp?

I am curious as I am building the same thing and have an estimated cost just north of $100,000.

Some say the surge tank is backwards thinking because it will employee a real return line. I just don't see it that way. I like the fact that i can boost reference the reg and increase pressure directly proportionaite to boost. While tuning a few cars I did not like seeing the fuel pressure dipping into very low 40's and even high 30's while reaching 10 psi. -

With that said I agree there should be systems out there that can support 800 crank and not be on the ragged edge.

900hp can be supported by our 750cc injector package assuming a base pressure that never goes below 43psi plus boost referance and we also have 950cc injectors we sell that will support our 1100 hp package and it leaves us 20% to spare.

Our production cars naturally have to run pump gas and only 8 inj in their stock locations. My crazy combo, ultra high hp, engine will also only run 8 but i am still toying with 1600cc or 2200cc applications. It has to be only 8 because I still want to use the factory stuff and not be ultra exoctic.

Spending? - I have no budget to speak of only a goal in mind and I will do what it takes to get there. If a customer said he wanted me to build him a 1600 car and gave me his car to start with: I would say for $100,000 that would be a good start

[jrpxxii]

I am running 65lb injectors, Fastlane dual fuel pump and KB boost a pump. My car puts out 1000hp and this system is flawless so far. I didnt want to go with an external pump as they are noisy.