Just seen NEW GM commercial!!!

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by Supermans

Lowering labor and operating costs overall and making profits will be the only way GM can ever even begin to break even which in turn all the profits from that point on will pay back those former stock holders who got the worst end of the deal. They are not holding their breath thinking they will ever see that money lost again. And most of those stockholders were the fat cats anyways, nobody cares about them since they still have enough money in the bank.

Originally Posted by Supermans

Yeah, the main culprit was years and years of legacy costs going up and up until it was almost impossible for the company to make a profit. Ultimately there is more than that however I feel that was the biggest reason.

This man hit the nail on the head.

[Tal]

Originally Posted by Supermans

Stock value today for GM is .75 cents.. Will it hit $40 a share anytime soon? My guess is you'd have a better shot at getting hit by lightning.

Turning the corner for me is simply a return to profitably making competitive products, something GM hasn't done with any consistency for a long time but they appear to be far closer to doing this now than they have been for decades. $40/share would be great but won't happen until long after that corner is turned.

[Unfair]

And while all this is going on, Ford posts a 2.1 billion profit in the first quarter of 2010.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/...rofit-quarter/

Ford's U.S. sales rose 37 percent for the quarter and its market share climbed nearly three percentage points. The automaker is benefiting from a rebound in auto sales, higher quality rankings and a boost to its reputation for avoiding government aid.

[Cmicasa the Great XvX]

Originally Posted by Supermans

If you think I am some sort of GM hater, think again. I am no such person. However I cannot stop you all for demonizing me in that fashion if I do spell out the facts. I cannot explain what is going on without getting political since everything has to do with politics of what GM's new management is doing.

There are people that sit back and let Government tell us what they know we want to hear without question, and there are those that question the Government's motives and tactics. It is as simple and as complex as that. Everything is intertwined now and unfortunately this site has policies which by keeping out any political talk indirectly does exactly what our current Government would like it to be. Which is the less informed you are and the less you are interested along with having complete trust in what they say and do that it is for the better is what they want.

I do have hope that the current GM prospers and that one day it is not owned by the Government anymore. If that is too political a statement then I will do as I did before and not frequent this forum that much.

And for everyone's information, I am enjoying my Camaro and have gotten together with other camaro5 members as well this past year. Life has been rough for me and my family but we are still kicking. God Bless...

I don't think anyone is Demonizing U. I think that we, on car forums no less, take the BUSINESS side of the Auto industry way to seriously. I root for GM because they have almost always provided me with stellar cars that were reliable and gorgeous. I have had one real problematic GM car, a Camaro no less (1983 Z28) that I bought in 1989 used with no engine and my limited skills at the time of "putting her back together" as my father put it.

I also root for them because for damn near an entire century they were the beacon of AMERICAN PROSPERITY and Engineering Feats.. sometimes more so than even NASA. For most of the last 100 years they supported this country's workforce, often times employing almost as many people as the Federal Governement in some capacity or another. These were GOOD jobs, not cashiering or stocking at your local Walmart for low wages that in reality employee workers, but do little to advance the socio-economical status of said population of workers. GM, along with Ford, and Chrysler, established an America that lived leaps and bounds above what most of the world did. WHY WOULD I NOT REMEMBER THAT when they came knocking on the Capitol's door asking for a LOAN?

In my book.. the money is paid back. They took it from the Tarp funds they owed and gave it back. Perhaps they should have worded it like that.

" WE GAVE the MONEY BACK (instead of PAID)... with $800 Million in INTEREST, a 10% yield in LESS than a year."

Unfortunatly we are in the midst of one of the biggest Partisan plights that I can remember in my life time. The country is still reeling over the election of a Non-White as President. Many can deny it all they want, but the truth of the matter is that it has a lot to do with the scutininzing of the Administration that we have seen. I hated GW's policies, but I respected his Presidency because the country can't move forward without the support of the people.

Ironically GM was given the life line by GW. Obama had no choice but to follow thru.

But seriously.. WTF does all that have to do with the BEAUTIFUL cars? I don't Ford because it mortgaged it's "interesting" cars at PAG to save itself and single handidly let both the Indians and Chinese in the U.S. market via Land Rover/Jag and Volvo sales. It still has more debt than I'm comfortable with, Q1 Profit or not.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by wavrun2000

The only propaganda I hear is just these post. I think it is great that GM did not go under because the amount of jobs that would be loss would be huge. Maybe I am blinded by the fact that I use to live in a town that was built around a GM factory. And when that factory was closed basically the whole town was out of a job. Not to mention all the suppliers that were linked to the factory. So to see GM not go under and have that happen to many small American towns make me happy. Not to mention it makes me proud to buy a car that was made and engineered here in America.

GM did go under. It's assets deemed valuable were transferred to a new company called General Motors Company. General Motors Corporation still exists but has been renamed Motors Liquidation Company LLC. If you are talking about dissolvement then yeah, it is good that it did not occur.

[Tal]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

I don't think anyone is Demonizing UIn my book.. the money is paid back. They took it from the Tarp funds they owed and gave it back. Perhaps they should have worded it like that.

" WE GAVE the MONEY BACK (instead of PAID)... with $800 Million in INTEREST, a 10% yield in LESS than a year."

Unfortunatly we are in the midst of one of the biggest Partisan plights that I can remember in my life time. The country is still reeling over the election of a Non-White as President. Many can deny it all they want, but the truth of the matter is that it has a lot to do with the scutininzing of the Administration that we have seen.

This is completely missing where GM, and since it's been brought up, the President failed. They attempted to spin GM paying the loans off as if it was the end of the bailout, they were all careful not to really say that but that was clearly the intended message as can be seen from the first post in this thread. If this was payed off with profits from GM doing so great it would have seen some criticism due to the remaing unpaid for government equity. That the money paid back was simply part of the money left over from the extremely overpriced purchase of GM shares by the government simply stinks of attempting to create a political and PR victory out of something everyone involved should be ashamed of (primarily members of Congress involved in it's writing and passage but also the current and last Presidential administrations responsible for the approval and implementation), as much as anything the repayment clearly highlights just how much the government overpaid for it's GM equity. To clarify I'm not completely opposed to such bailouts, but the amounts and methods involved are another story entirely along with how it's pretended that all of these equity purchases are somehow guaranteed to pay for themselves.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Cmicasa the Great XvX

Unfortunatly we are in the midst of one of the biggest Partisan plights that I can remember in my life time. The country is still reeling over the election of a Non-White as President. Many can deny it all they want, but the truth of the matter is that it has a lot to do with the scutininzing of the Administration that we have seen.

[fbodfather]

Supermans -

There is simply too much misinformation out there --

a few thoughts: (and up front, I need to disclose a few things: 1. - these are my views and not necessarily those of the company for whom I work ...

2. the older I get, the more I realize what I DON'T know - and --

3. Most people don't know much about what's really happened to this industry over the past 40 years - -and it isn't 'simple' - rather, it's hugely complicated.....

Now - there is more misinformation out there than there is good information.

The loan was paid in full with interest.

There was no money out there to be raised due to the credit crunch - so we gave YOU the taxpayer 60+ percent of the company in exchange for working capital.

The Obama administration is not involved in the day-to-day running of the business.....and in fact, there's a good argument that looking closer at the auto industry opened many eyes in Washington - something that sorely needed to happen.......

There are several industry experts and financial experts that feel that YOU the taxpayer, may have made a good investment.

Go look at Ford Stock and what's happened to it over the past year.....and they don't have the cost savings that GM does......

It's very likely that GM will start to make some serious money - and soon. Further, once the IPO goes out, the government can then sell the stock -- and hopefully it will be a very good investment.

Now - many have said something along the lines that "GM should have been forced into bankruptcy and the government should not have loaned them money." OK - that would have resulted in Chapter 7 in all likelihood simply because there were no avenues to borrow money. You can go into bankruptcy -- but the reality is that the auto industry is a VERY capital intensive business. If the banks aren't loaning money - -something's gotta give.......and so it was a case of getting loans from the goverment and in return, giving the government a percentage of the business -- or starve for capital -- and that usually means chapter 7.

Ford, on the other hand, had mortgaged everything including the staplers on the desks a few years ago -- when funds were still available to borrow on the open market - and whoever made that decision is a genius or lucky or both........so they were able to weather the downturn. (.. i sure hope whoever it was that made that decision was given a good sized bonus -- he/she deserves it!)

Keep one thing in mind as you look at this entire situation:

Americans bought approx. 16 million new cars and trucks a year until the bottom fell out due to the housing market and the drying up of capital. Now - that 'pie' of 16 million units per year over a 4-5 year period kept getting sliced up by more and more competition from overseas competitors.....and in some cases, competitors that have, for all intents and purposes - a closed market. Suddenly, that 16 million units a year drops to 9 million units a year - and no one can sustain that drop for an extended period of time.

Now - some would say "well - -you signed the contracts with the unions!" - and it isn't quite that simple. Go look at the summer of 1998 to see what happened to the economy when there was a strike.

Should you buy a GM car or truck? I'll let the others on this board give their opinions...... I'd like you to consider GM and Ford and Chrysler as your provider of all your transportation needs........

By the way -- speaking of giving money away -- you might want to look at the deal that Mr. Shelby of Alabama gave to a couple of foreign car manufacturers -- and they don't have to pay it back!

I guess if I were to give advice:

>go drive our cars and trucks - and then go talk with those who have bought our cars and trucks in the past couple of years......

>remember - -it's YOU -- the taxpayer - who have invested in GM and Chrysler.....

And finally - -perhaps it's prudent to keep an open mind until you get all of the facts.


(......oh -- and one last fact: The stock you refer to at 75 cents or whatever is for the OLD GM - not the new one........)

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by Supermans

If you think I am some sort of GM hater, think again. I am no such person. However I cannot stop you all for demonizing me in that fashion if I do spell out the facts. I cannot explain what is going on without getting political since everything has to do with politics of what GM's new management is doing.

There are people that sit back and let Government tell us what they know we want to hear without question, and there are those that question the Government's motives and tactics. It is as simple and as complex as that. Everything is intertwined now and unfortunately this site has policies which by keeping out any political talk indirectly does exactly what our current Government would like it to be. Which is the less informed you are and the less you are interested along with having complete trust in what they say and do that it is for the better is what they want.

I do have hope that the current GM prospers and that one day it is not owned by the Government anymore. If that is too political a statement then I will do as I did before and not frequent this forum that much.

And for everyone's information, I am enjoying my Camaro and have gotten together with other camaro5 members as well this past year. Life has been rough for me and my family but we are still kicking. God Bless...

Like usual everything you post is 90% fluff and rhetoric and 10% substance...hey- you should run for president!

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

Like usual everything you post is 90% fluff and rhetoric and 10% substance...hey- you should run for president!

And you couldn't PM him this opinion because?

[fbodfather]

Let me say it again: The American Government is not running GM any more than they're running every other business with rules and regulations.

The government is not interested in the day-to-day operations.

Believe me - without going political, I'm appalled at what's going on in Washington. That said, I DO believe that some in Washington had their eyes opened real wide when they travelled to Detroit and met with GM/Ford/Chrysler - they found out that Washington has been a hindrance to the Automobile companies - not a partner as you would find in Japan or Korea or the European Union......

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Let me say it again: The American Government is not running GM any more than they're running every other business with rules and regulations.

Then why did they get rid of Rick Wagoner and chose Fritz Henderson as his replacement?

Call me crazy, but choosing a company's CEO is a hands on way to run a company.

[Tal]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Now - many have said something along the lines that "GM should have been forced into bankruptcy and the government should not have loaned them money." OK - that would have resulted in Chapter 7 in all likelihood simply because there were no avenues to borrow money. You can go into bankruptcy -- but the reality is that the auto industry is a VERY capital intensive business. If the banks aren't loaning money - -something's gotta give.......and so it was a case of getting loans from the goverment and in return, giving the government a percentage of the business -- or starve for capital -- and that usually means chapter 7.

This right here is the crux of why I do think at least some form of government bailout was needed. Under capitalization can sink even a company with a good business plan. Despite a turn around in recent years GM's legacy costs and other obligations agreed to years and even decades past meant that a bankruptcy was likely sooner or later. It wouldn't have been easy but that didn't necessarily mean the end of GM if it happened when the economy was decent, but for it to happen in the middle of such a crunch made it practically impossible for a 'normal' reformation. As I've said before I'll never be particularly happy with the exact path taken, several serious mistakes were made in how this was approached IMO, although if the TARP investment can is paid back in full by simply selling the stock off in the next year or two I'll be happily proven wrong about at least part of my opinions on this. Despite all that I've generally been impressed with the General's turnaround, but seeing Whitacre on TV acting all Zippety Doo-dah with so much taxpayer money still in GM just sits wrong.

[1bad65]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Now - there is more misinformation out there than there is good information.

The loan was paid in full with interest.

It was paid back with money given GM by the same entity who held the loan they paid off!

It's almost like paying off your Visa with your MasterCard and saying you are debt free.

It's not rocket science guys. When I first heard the news, I knew something was not adding up. GM was in the red, and since the bailout GM hasn't turned a profit. So right off the bat I asked myself, "So where did that money come from?"