01-05-2014, 12:49 AM | #393 |
Drives: CTS-V Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tri-State
Posts: 84
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Like most I thought GM would price this sensibly. Targeting the consumers who are shopping that sweet spot of 45-$65,000 performance cars. But $75,000 before the gas guzzler and destination charge and without AC/Stereo is excessive. I can afford it but see no value in the purchase. The 7.0L is old news after 9 years. If I want a dedicated track car it's not going to be a 3,837lb whale (probably 3,900 with a/c and speakers). Something tells me I'm going to see grey hair behind the wheel if I even see one on the road.
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01-05-2014, 01:48 AM | #394 | |
Drives: 12 MP4-12C, 16 Quattroporte Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Working
Posts: 707
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Quote:
The Z/28 is just being placed in a very strange market. |
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01-05-2014, 02:20 AM | #395 |
Owner of VIN # 35278
Drives: IBM 2SS, A6, Leather & Sunroof Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Whitby Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 649
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$75,000 Us or $85,000-90,000 Canadian
Sorry, NOT 4 ME. I'm going to keep my 2010 2SS and when I'm ready to trade in, I'll be getting a Stingray instead! |
01-05-2014, 02:21 AM | #396 | |
Owner of VIN # 35278
Drives: IBM 2SS, A6, Leather & Sunroof Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Whitby Ontario, CANADA
Posts: 649
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Quote:
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01-05-2014, 02:31 AM | #397 |
Est.1775
Drives: '15 Challenger Hellcat (sold) Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,502
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The 2014 Camaro Z/28 at $75,000 over priced, period. It's a Camaro with the same cheap material from 2010. Those who are saying its an amazing price need to stop sippin the kool aid.
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01-05-2014, 02:41 AM | #398 |
Banned
Drives: 2013 CRT ZL1 Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 1,545
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+1 ABOVE!
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01-05-2014, 05:45 AM | #399 |
Drives: Camaro SS Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Eua
Posts: 344
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you complain too much, you see, in Brazil the non rs camaro ss, in a single version L99, has a value of approximately $ 90,000. a car like the z28, much higher than for 75mil dollars is low. but the U.S. market is realistic. 75k I actually prefer the corvette. or pay a little more and take a c63 amg coupe
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01-05-2014, 06:37 AM | #400 |
Drives: 86 Mustang GT Convertible Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 102
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Wow! This has been an epic discussion with over 400 comments within 48 hours. I doubt the new Corvette and Camaro tail lights generated as much discussion as the $75K Z/28.
Even the well known Pill from Mustang6G (who is banned from sharing his opinion on this forum) is trying to get in on this discussion. He has posted this epic comment here on Mustang6G and challenged a few of the named posters here to join him on Mustang6G for a gentlemanly discussion of the facts about the Z/28. Here is half of The Pill's epic comment. What should have been never was. If they wanted to sell volumes of cars, they would have made the Z28 to the Camaro as the 5.0 is to the GT. The Z28 should have been everywhere and able to scale as the owner seen fit. What was the Camaro, the backbone, has now been placed out of the hands of it's faithful. Chevy however did not place the z28 out of the competitions reach. A 7:37 is great for the heavy platform and shabby IRS and then again, a 7:39 is great for a live axle and a 10 year old model. The Z28 IS the Camaro, or was... Now it's something most Camaro owners can't have. I know, I know... It is a track focused experiment for the hardcore track day guys. I just don't see the connection between hardcore racing components and not being permitted to enter regional classes in both circuit and solo. There still has been no attempt by Chevrolet to sanction the z28 in any SCCA, IMSA or NASA class... AT ALL... How can you be track focused but lose site of the competitive side? As somebody suggested before, there was just no means available tot he heavy Camaro to produce a competitive z28 while adhering to the rulebooks. This is where multiple levels of Z28's would have come in handy. Instead of spending millions of dollars in R&D, why not increase factory support in IMSA/Tudor USC (then Grand Am). Using the LS3, while providing the public with a Z28, it would be affordable, legal and competitive. Team Camaro gave up on the 1LE in SCCA T2... That would have been a decent place to start as well. Again, you have serious issues with a 7 liter LS7 in road racing. The Z06 is limited to just 5.5 liters in ALMS and now in Grand Am/IMSA/Tudor USC. Carbon Ceramic Brakes as well as a disc larger than 380mm in the front is also prohibited. This simple fact still escapes some "hardcore" benchers over on C5. I wish they could discuss this in detail over here, they are always welcome I am sure. I will warn you right away, I will want to know your opinion on Team Camaro's shaving lap times and sandbagging. This is a topic C5 never really indulges in... I seriously want to hear some comments on that topic. It is just oddly overlooked on a regular basis. Just as the prohibited equipment that litters the z28. Zfat would have you believe he intends to set out on an HPDE event rampage and really tear up the stopwatch. For $7000 more brother, you can play for real with a Boss 302S. As I said elsewhere, you might not be able to drive the 302S to the track, but at least you can drive it ON the track when you get there. That's some pretty serious money for what you guys are calling a "Status and Prestige" charge. I think Team Camaro actually put some of that AC cost into the MSRP... In fact, I think Team Camaro went ahead and priced for dealer mark-up. They figured people would pay $5-10,000 more on mark-ups anyway, why not account for that already. It may in fact leave no room for the dealers to go if the cars sit on lots too long. Of the few that do race, I see a track warranty being used as justification of a $75,000 MSRP. I have to see some pretty impressive numbers before I say $75,000 was or was not worth it. If the R&D led the 5th Gen Camaro to it's first road racing title then I would say yes. However, since you will never see this car competing, It will be difficult for it to win a championship. More so after the 2015 GT350 devours this pig. Lets see some lap times here in America. I am even eager to see Team Camaro's totally unbiased results while only using an OEM package. Did they ever show the actual z28 that did the 7:37 Ring lap??? Caged for sure... I know they did a switch-a-roo and tried to pass the Milford z28 off as the Ring z28. This is the same magic z28 that beat the GT500's Milford time while doing a media tour at 80%. That is the point in which SVT accidentally slipped the video heard round the World (Many thanks still go out to Travis). Who cares if it can't be registered to do what Chevy markets the car for... But then again, the same handful of members will argue for the next 70 pages that it IS legal to run carbon ceramic brakes... In like Formula 1. It's not just the carbon ceramic brakes Zflatulence... The front disc are over 380mm, the front tires are over 285mm, the LS7 is limited to 5.5 liters/weight penalty elsewhere. The whole car, everything that make a 2014 z28 a 2014 z28 is essentially the reason it cannot be sanctioned ANYWHERE feasible. Initially, I didn't care if most of the z28's ended up in storage, I seen potential buyers sizing the car up to either replace their current race car or, god forbid, try and start racing with this thing. Not a good way to get someone evolved in Motorsport, by getting them turned away at inspection. Am I missing the point? I don;t think so... Over and over, I hear that it is not a race car, it is not for competition. Fine, but then they compare it to a COPO for the road. No, there you go again... The COPO is a race car, the z28 is NOT a race car. They slip right back into it like mindless drones. They have been marketed on and they can't get up. I tried to option out a 1LE and get over my original $67,000 prediction. I know there are some improvements made I can't account for and yes, production numbers have an impact. That said, I figured in a buffer for what I could account for and still, I only got to about $67k. That's an $8000 demand for limit numbers... The ZL1 currently races in the SCCA GTS class, it is essentially a Riley Camaro just as the Grand Am GT car is. It has a one piece aftermarket body and exposed B pillar. I can see Team Camaro taking the easy way out and pushing the badge and not the car. It is really cheap to do that and rewards laziness. Other manufacturers earn the right to use an OEM badge on the car in Pro racing by making a production version close to the race car. In IMSA, the Camaro uses a generic GS.R and GT.R due to the power train being outsourced. Any z28 found in professional racing will not even be close to the OEM garbage. Maybe it will use the Z06's ALMS 5.5 LS7... One thing is for sure, Al O himself feels that racing is a very big deal. So big he would rather petition an organization to create a special series for the z28. Instead of engineering the car to be placed in one of the almost two dozen class the Mustang is in. Some would say the z28 was made for the pure car enthusiast. I say that is far from the truth... Since any car enthusiast would want a completely legal and extremely competitive base to build on. With the MSRP at least $8000 more than I can virtually account for, I would say the z28's purpose and target market is clear. It's target market is obviously car enthusiast but, Team Camaro continues to target an even more elite group. The race car market... To what purpose??? To market a car as a pure-bred race car like Ford did with the Boss 302. Market the car and marketing ONLY. Team Camaro didn't do the work Ford did, it's expensive and it takes too long right? I mean, that is season long R&D. Those awkwardly excited few that still flap on about the killer bargain for $75,000 are not fooling anyone. After page 3, the common vibe is that the MSRP is ridiculous. I admire the effort put forth by Joe, Zfat, Lowdown and Clyde to erect some sort of damage control. I'm not sure you can convince many that it is a bargain. For the most part, C5 members are just not into it. Some are just insulted that they waited for this and a 7:37. Your gonna need a hell of a lot faster Ring time than a 7:37... The '13 GT500 is right behind that and in my honest opinion, that is just not worth $75k. The z28 is not a pure-bred anything, there is no pedigree or heritage being past on here. The 1967 Z/28 was an RPO code, nothing else. It wasn't even that great in Trans Am. The GT350 dominated the Z/28 in '67. If I remember correctly, Chevy began using Z/28 and had the car badged accordingly. That's about the only thing the two have in common... The marketing of the badge, brand and name... The z28 is not a pure-bred anything, there is no pedigree or heritage being past on here. The 1967 Z/28 was an RPO code, nothing else. It wasn't even that great in Trans Am. The GT350 dominated the Z/28 in '67. If I remember correctly, Chevy began using Z/28 and had the car badged accordingly. That's about the only thing the two have in common... The marketing of the badge, brand and name... In turn, what Team Camaro has accomplished, is further alienating the backbone of Camaro nameplates from it's core. They specifically created a Camaro to conform to self proclaimed car enthusiast and Camaro fans of the extreme nature. A Camaro developed with magazine victories in mind over regional, divisional or national championships. The nameplate that had the potential to sell the most will be produced the less and for the most money. A painfully apparent display of an inflated self worth... The only real target market for a car like this had no idea the car they were so interested in was in fact NOT a race car. Nor could you use this z28 in the lowly regional classes most GT and Boss 302's are found. The z28 will see no returns, no profit made, no real engineering advancements, its a huge step back for a street car and again, absolutely NO championships. ...and now... after 50 years, the legendary automobile that drew first blood is returning. The last time the GT350 and z28 were on the same circuit, the GT350 won a SCCA Trans Am Championship. It is on it's way fella's and if you thought the GT500 whooped up on the ZL1, wait till you get a load of this. The GT350 will be world class and probably pretty close to what Corvette has to offer at the same price point. What then??? Ford has contracted Multimatic to help research and develop during the season, maybe not this season but they are going to create a real, race-bred Mustang. Ford was using the Boss 302S to benchmark the 2015 GT against... That is a 1:32-1:36 at Laguna Seca boys... I personally get excited when I think about the Mustang being based on the race car. More excited when Ford sanctions the cars in Motorsport... Even more excited when that offering is cheaper than the competition by a long shot. Perhaps I am "missing it", maybe I just don't get it. Along with a nice chunk of your own Camaro fans as well... and I see the media isn't exactly overjoyed at the big $75k. I'm offering a stage to anyone that has the time to help us all over here "Get it". Instead of discussing this within a ring of people that are just as blind as you... why not come over here and state your case. That wouldn't be classy now would it but you know what, one of you better get over here and at least speak on its behalf. All this cowering on C5 in the "price" thread is starting to seem a little Anne Frank. I wanna hear about the HPDE events and yes Zfat, CC brakes are not permitted in SCCA Solo, as well as front rotors over 380mm. Have you ever done the math and found out where the z28 would class after all the penalty points are taken into account? Someplace insane where cars use lift-off, one-piece bodies. I occasionally read C5, I feel my biggest fan base is there. Out of the last 4 years, I have never witnessed so much back peddling as I have seen in the last 24 hours. I have also witnessed some alternative realities literally spring up from someones brain and onto the internetssssssss. Here are a few of some of the funniest comments I seen recently.... enjoy... I (JAZ) had to delete all the comments from the Camaro5 forum that The Pill included in his comment. When the original quotes were formatted out in my comment, the response by The Pill to each quote was hard to follow. Have a look at The Pills full comment on Mustang6G to possibly see how he responded to your comments above. There are maybe 4 guys reposting pretty much the same hoopla. Canned response to try and get some positive post flowing... Not happening. Lowdown, Joe, Zfat... You are more than welcome to debate this here... Unless you don't have an argument. then I could see why you would want to avoid thePill. Please see the screen captures of the rulebooks in the beginning of this thread. It clearly states the requirements that prohibit the z28 from being sanctioned by Chevrolet. $75,000 for a recreational track car is stupid, plain and simple. Anyone still talking about this car in any seriousness is... not trying to sound mean but, they are stupid after what is known about the car. Anyone who thinks $75,000 for a recreational track car needs to get ahold of themselves. Your better off getting an SS so at least you can move on to Regional's once you get the experience. The z28 will not allow you to progress past the infant stage. LOL at the Rookie that shows up with a $75,000 recreation track car with the intentions of blowing everyone away during your private hot laps. Regardless, enough making fun of you without you being here. I will debate and keep it respectful and clean unless you decide not to do the same. |
01-05-2014, 07:47 AM | #401 |
Drives: 1956 Chevy, 2000 vette, 2010 camaro Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 59
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Well, yesterday I asked my dealer for my deposit back on the one Z/28 allocation they are getting. Having owned a 2010 2SS/RS and a 2012 ZL1. I'm sure the Z/28 is a machine. But that's crazy money boys.
I think my 65 year old mom (who ordered a 1969 Z/28 new back in the day) said it best. "Your dad and I were blue collar folks in 1969. Shame on GM. They have priced the car out of reach for the demographic that made it a success." I hope at some point I get to ride in one just to see what it's like. I guess I'll look for a another ZL1 or maybe a loaded C7 Corvette. |
01-05-2014, 08:08 AM | #402 | |
Drives: 2010 Camaro SS, 2014 Z28 Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Houston
Posts: 414
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Quote:
There's an old adage.....if you race it, you're gonna break it. Running a car hard on the track breaks things. I'm optimistic (hopeful?) that GM used some of the price to test/build parts to withstand hard sessions at the track. It would be nice to have a car that you both drive to the track AND drive home from the track. If you end up needing a trailer to get your Z28 home, then you might as well just get a track car. Personally I like the Z28 and with some proper testing and set up expect it to be very fast at most tracks.
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ERL 500 ci Short Block, 2in ARH Headers, TSP LS7 Heads, LSXR/NW 102, Forgeline, MGW Shifter, StopTech BBK, Pfadt C/O's, Pfadt ASB's, etc, PowerFab Dynotune
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01-05-2014, 09:15 AM | #403 |
Drives: '10 CGM 2SS/RS 6M Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 1,032
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Yeah, remind me...that buys a house in some parts of this country still...so you'd rather spend that kinda money on a car? Then track it once and drop another 4k on tires? Yeah that makes sense...for all of those who wish to "call out" our brethren on this site get over your pedestal and see it for what this really is...it's a Camaro and it's a Z/28...no matter what era you grew up in if you like Camaro's and dreamed about them as a young boy, the Z/28 was YOUR halo car!!! Now it's become a unicorn for only a few small few to see and even less to drive!
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01-05-2014, 09:16 AM | #404 | ||
Drives: A few Camaros Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 205
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Quote:
Good to be seen! Yup, you've got it, we're on the same wavelength. Here's some thoughts I posted somewhere else. This is for the Camaro faithful, whose soul burns for a REAL Z/28, but the expected $75,000 -$100,000 out the door price may be too dear for them. Quote:
Last edited by Z/284ever; 01-05-2014 at 01:28 PM. |
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01-05-2014, 09:17 AM | #405 |
Drives: '10 CGM 2SS/RS 6M Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North Central Florida
Posts: 1,032
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And I actually agree with the pills comments for once!
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01-05-2014, 09:39 AM | #406 |
Too Many Great Choices
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
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The pill found a surrogate. I'll be surprised if the mods allow that to continue.
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