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Old 11-28-2010, 05:07 PM   #2115
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oh.... cam only with stock unported heads, with no forced induction/nitrous, AND at full weight

yeah... um... not attainable..... whoever said that was on crack......

m6... with 4.10s and taller than stock tires killing my dyno numbers a little bit
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Old 11-28-2010, 05:13 PM   #2116
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question.... if u pull the heads to flycut, but don't port/mill them..... is that still considered cam only?

if it is... then i don't know...... no one really has gone all out "cam only" because to put a decent sized n/a cam in these motors you have to flycut.... and if ur pulling the heads... u might as well port them. if someone decided to do this and not port and this still be considered "cam only", then maybe
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Old 11-28-2010, 05:20 PM   #2117
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oh.... cam only with stock unported heads, with no forced induction/nitrous, AND at full weight

yeah... um... not attainable..... whoever said that was on crack......

m6... with 4.10s and taller than stock tires killing my dyno numbers a little bit
oh ok. well looking at the fast list, the average heads/cam L99 traps 117.8mph

the only heads cam LS3 on the fast list trapped 116.2mph

of course lists like these could be pointless if any weight reduction is never mentioned!!
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:28 AM   #2118
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i think its attainable on the stock shortblock. But the argument turned into the possibility of 10's at full weight with "cam only" which i think might be a bit too tall of an order,but who knows??.

is your 464rwhp with an auto or m6?
i said heads AND cam. He ran an 11.3 at 121.5 cam only and full weight. I said with 4.10 gears and some testing and tuning he might have had a chance at 10's. The whole point was I was saying the extra 30-40hp from heads could have gotten him close to tens NA/full weight/stock bottom end /pump gas.



thats the 'anomaly" on video.

He also went 11.29

If you dont think he could have gotten 10's with some heads and some more time thats your opinion. With 4.10s it would be a no brainer.

Properly tracked LS3 cars with 480+rwhp can trap 120+

Full weight/pump gas/stock bottom end.

I wonder what it would run with 500 pounds removed? mid to low 10's?

BTW...im not sure how 1 out of a handful is an anomaly. Not in the school I went to anyway. Especially not when people have trapped nearly 118 with exhaust and bolt ons. It is more the set-up than anything. The cars are capable...but you cant just throw on a set of 15's and slicks and go to the track like you can in a 5.0.

Last edited by ULTRAZLS1; 11-29-2010 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:33 AM   #2119
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ya man i went to the drag last summer and really thought it was fun, went with a bunch of kids i know. great day. but i am really worried about breaking something to... i know what you mean about bragging rights, i to love to go to car meets, and things like that... my dad is really against be taking the camaro to a drag strip... i am thinking about go in for a cam setup very soon before it starts to snow really bad. my camaro will not be a daily driver so i am still deciding on what cam, i know nothing about them
If you need any help/advice with cars let me know.

I built my h/c ls1 myself in my 98 car. Built one for my friend. I have been working on cars off and on for over 10 years.

If you are going to do a cam do the heads as well. You will just want more later...trust me. And it is not much hader to go a little further and do the heads. Changing the valve springs and and removing the cam with the heads on is a little trickier than just doing it altogether. I have a good spring remover tool. It is still time consuming and you also have to make sure each piston is to the top of the cylinder you are doing, to avoid dropping the valve you just removed the valve spring from (or use compressed air but that makes me nervous)

Anyway...just let me know if you need any help/advice etc...
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:46 AM   #2120
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If you need any help/advice with cars let me know.

I built my h/c ls1 myself in my 98 car. Built one for my friend. I have been working on cars off and on for over 10 years.

If you are going to do a cam do the heads as well. You will just want more later...trust me. And it is not much hader to go a little further and do the heads. Changing the valve springs and and removing the cam with the heads on is a little trickier than just doing it altogether. I have a good spring remover tool. It is still time consuming and you also have to make sure each piston is to the top of the cylinder you are doing, to avoid dropping the valve you just removed the valve spring from (or use compressed air but that makes me nervous)

Anyway...just let me know if you need any help/advice etc...
thanks allot man, i have talked to my local shop and they have a cam kit with all of the things i will need, but i am worried about breaking something, was thinking about doing some other things first like suspension/gearing upgrades first. or maybe just go for the cam right now. how do you feel about that much power with stock transmission.
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:29 AM   #2121
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thanks allot man, i have talked to my local shop and they have a cam kit with all of the things i will need, but i am worried about breaking something, was thinking about doing some other things first like suspension/gearing upgrades first. or maybe just go for the cam right now. how do you feel about that much power with stock transmission.
Tranny is fine to around 600hp minimum I believe.

Stock clutch wont last too long if you track it a lot.

Stock axles will break for sure after a few hard launches on some sticky tires.

The stock IRS carrier itself might last a while if you do the proper suspension components around it and use some stronger axles.

So if you want to track it..... You will need 18 inch c6 zo6 rims (17 inch bogarts are optimal but pricey) with good slicks to match. Aftermarket axles, lower control arms and poly dif mounts at minimum. Aftermarket clutch eventually.

And like I said...dont just do a cam only. Throw on a set of ported heads as well. They are only around 1000 bucks from tsp and show over 30hp gains. You will want to port your intake and TB as well. Or splurge and go with a fast 102/102 set-up. I just know from experience....do it all at once and save yourself time and money. If you do it later its more time tearing it apart again. If you do it later it is more money for a re-tune.

then again...maybe im just weird
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:35 AM   #2122
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to take a side though, as I don't think i know the whole arguement here (nor do i feel like reading all 8 pages of ridiculous arguing)

but I would say high 10's IS attainable n/a on a stock short block. It would just take a very aggressive cam, very nice heads that have been milled a good bit (as in stock form they leave too much compression and quench on the table), gears, and very good air/da and track prep.

should i decide to stay n/a next year... maybe that will be a goal I can shoot for....
I was always under the impression going with a thinner head gasket is a better choice for improving quench and compression when possible over milling the heads extensively. (that was the consensus on my last build sponsored by ls1tech info)
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:41 AM   #2123
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Tranny is fine to around 600hp minimum I believe.

Stock clutch wont last too long if you track it a lot.

Stock axles will break for sure after a few hard launches on some sticky tires.

The stock IRS carrier itself might last a while if you do the proper suspension components around it and use some stronger axles.

So if you want to track it..... You will need 18 inch c6 zo6 rims (17 inch bogarts are optimal but pricey) with good slicks to match. Aftermarket axles, lower control arms and poly dif mounts at minimum. Aftermarket clutch eventually.

And like I said...dont just do a cam only. Throw on a set of ported heads as well. They are only around 1000 bucks from tsp and show over 30hp gains. You will want to port your intake and TB as well. Or splurge and go with a fast 102/102 set-up. I just know from experience....do it all at once and save yourself time and money. If you do it later its more time tearing it apart again. If you do it later it is more money for a re-tune.

then again...maybe im just weird
lots of good info thanks, ya my shop already said i should do some heads also. i do not track. and i do not launch my car at all.. i have already have broken something doing that with stock setup...

so you think i am fine, with a cam and heads.. only time i every will be under WOT is when is when i am rolling... i never do from a dig racing

again i am not looking to track, just want a fun street car, and of course bragging rights
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:21 AM   #2124
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Mikess, did you race your friends 5.0 yet?
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:26 AM   #2125
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lots of good info thanks, ya my shop already said i should do some heads also. i do not track. and i do not launch my car at all.. i have already have broken something doing that with stock setup...

so you think i am fine, with a cam and heads.. only time i every will be under WOT is when is when i am rolling... i never do from a dig racing

again i am not looking to track, just want a fun street car, and of course bragging rights

Yeah. But the stock clutch might only hold for so long when you are ~120hp over stock levels.

The other problem (from experience with my 98) is when you are making that type of power the car will be all over the road. But I guess you cant do much about that with street tires...but the suspension components may help that a bit. And you could run drag radials all year. You might need them even from a 40 roll...but maybe the 5th gen will get better traction in these situations compared to my 98 by being heavier.

I put my 98 camaro into a tree 3 weeks after the heads and cam build was finished. The car was 3297lbs (m6 stripper with some minor weight reduction) and made 420 rwhp on a VERY conservative mustang dyno at exotic performance plus. It would get completely sideways at ~75mph if I shifted hard enough. I hope my 5th gen isnt as bad when I do the H/C swap....or I may just have to run TC all the time.

in other words...you might have to be careful even from a roll once you do the H/C. Respect it...
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:38 AM   #2126
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Yeah. But the stock clutch might only hold for so long when you are ~120hp over stock levels.

The other problem (from experience with my 98) is when you are making that type of power the car will be all over the road. But I guess you cant do much about that with street tires...but the suspension components may help that a bit. And you could run drag radials all year. You might need them even from a 40 roll...but maybe the 5th gen will get better traction in these situations compared to my 98 by being heavier.

I put my 98 camaro into a tree 3 weeks after the heads and cam build was finished. The car was 3297lbs (m6 stripper with some minor weight reduction) and made 420 rwhp on a VERY conservative mustang dyno at exotic performance plus. It would get completely sideways at ~75mph if I shifted hard enough. I hope my 5th gen isnt as bad when I do the H/C swap....or I may just have to run TC all the time.

in other words...you might have to be careful even from a roll once you do the H/C. Respect it...
i see... wow that is very helpful. maybe i will need to start with something else first
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:40 AM   #2127
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Mikess, did you race your friends 5.0 yet?
no we did not race yet, looks like we cant tell the weather gets warmer..

i do got a cool video of the cars though
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Old 11-29-2010, 07:27 AM   #2128
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I was always under the impression going with a thinner head gasket is a better choice for improving quench and compression when possible over milling the heads extensively. (that was the consensus on my last build sponsored by ls1tech info)
it is, to an extent..... that's why i stated earlier that i'm going to be running a .040" gasket on my car, should I decide to rip the heads off again. sorry if I didn't address every detail, like what head gaskets to run, what oil weight to use, how many psi to run in tires, etc. etc. etc. etc.
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