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Old 12-25-2014, 01:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttshovel View Post
The Polluter and btr stage 4 cam are the same.
Specs are, .619/.596, 233/248 on a 113 lsa

These cars weigh so much that's why the smaller cams do really well too.
That's right!! Thanks for refreshing my memory! Got the BTR Stage 4 cam confused with the Kaotic. All 3 are good ls3 conversion cams.
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Old 12-25-2014, 07:26 PM   #16
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If any of the cam is on COMP grind I want to avoid them hearing storys on the fail rate kinda lean me away from it no offense to the company I chosen those 3 cam because I believe they are from a different grind but I'm leaning towards TSP 231/236 and the Night fury due to pricing on the kits
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Old 12-25-2014, 07:47 PM   #17
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Mines on a comp grind and haven't had any issues after 6k miles. Keeping my fingers crossed, when I purchased it last xmas lethal was still grinding with comp instead of cam motion.
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Old 12-25-2014, 07:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by MightymouseSS View Post
Mines on a comp grind and haven't had any issues after 6k miles. Keeping my fingers crossed, when I purchased it last xmas lethal was still grinding with comp instead of cam motion.
We have a similar set up what numbers did you put down ? I put down 491/439
Vararam intake, v max, tsp 2 inch, udp, hfc, slp loud mouth axle back.
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:13 AM   #19
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That Kaotic Cam sounds really nice. Anyone else have any dyno numbers on it?
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Old 12-26-2014, 09:39 AM   #20
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Cam motion Titan VI netted me 484/444 on a load bearing dyno. 47x/43x completely heat soaked.
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:09 PM   #21
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Give us a shout when you're ready. We've done a lot of LS3 cam swaps and can help point you in the right direction based on your needs, goals and budget.

Sometimes bigger and more expensive isn't always the way to go...

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Old 12-26-2014, 04:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan @ Southwest Speed View Post
Give us a shout when you're ready. We've done a lot of LS3 cam swaps and can help point you in the right direction based on your needs, goals and budget.

Sometimes bigger and more expensive isn't always the way to go...

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Old 12-26-2014, 05:21 PM   #23
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TSP I have the one better than that (the top of the food chain) with its recommended .675 springs etc.. and it made good power with my electric power steering and dual mode I came in at 491/448 with long tubes and CAI with a good tune on a mustang dyno. gs6x....like cutting the PTV clearance to nothing? ask TSP about it.... Nightfury... reason you do not read the specs for it posted online here..... Not as much a performer as the previous two so may be more friendly to other things like FI as its results are all over the map from 450-480 depending on what? most likely friendly dyno tunes on happy dynojets, and varied specs for the cam which is just a name and most people only post the LSA? like WTF I considered it for about five seconds after repeatedly searching post after post.
I have about 6 thousand miles on my cam, no problems what so ever, did a break in with driven racing br30 and use ls30 oil, and used stock timing chain until down the road and stock pump which is always above 30 psi which can be changed later down the road as they are a single roller timing chain, and in most cases a perfectly good pump made by .... guess who? melling.... I did go with the fluidampr balancer for limiting the harmful vibrations to the chain and the ls gurus recommended 7.375 pushrods as he promised if he measured it and it took otherwise he would swap them out... Oh and I have zero valve train noise.
Anyway its your call, your idle will go up to 900 and the cams like taking off at 1500 rpms to not surge or fall flat...... I guess due to the fact the first ls7 engines had trunion problems the first year is why so many change them when my builder say the stock are fine, I may change them after my 25k spring check if anything looks bad especially then.
My cam is the TSP 235/239 the longer duration for the exhaust stroke is the fact the height of the lift is lessor... I did 112 lsa and the lift .639/ .623 its a proprietary grind done by TSP. Tsp also does matched package of cam, pushrods, and springs and recommends spending $50 more when going this lift to get .675 springs, I custom ordered the 7.375 height by just talking to them, and got the three bolt gear and bolts and balancer bolt and gaskets etc through them. Good luck. Many would trash the comp cams that are everywhere because so many have had failures and many did them their selves, and almost always they did not do a break in, and that's something that would eat other cams in your face from my old hotrodding experience...oh and driven racings experience too as joe gibbs racing lost 1 in 10 cams before breaking in roller lifter racing engines cams.... then went to 1 in 40 by using the break in oil they developed..and if its good enough for Nascar........... and yes that's a 400% decrease in cam failure. I used to do all my own flat tappet cams, I would not risk that with the costs involved just in parts here and went with the best tuner mechanic guru I could find in my area even though its in another state... And I did not have all the tools, let alone the experience I have had with SBC engines .....

I don't want to thread derail but my girlfriend literally just bought this cam for me for Christmas (except 113 LSA)

Can I just ask what all supporting valvetrain mods you have done with it? I noticed a few you mentioned above, the 7.375 in pushrods really helps me because thats a spot I haven't been sure on for this cam.

As of now the list of mods needed includes
-TSP DOD/AFM Delete, this includes..
LS2 Chain Dampener
LS7 Lifters
LS2 Lifter Trays
Head Gaskets
ARP bolts
LS3 Valley Cover
PCV Hose
PCV Plug
Cam Swap Gasket Kit

-Comp Cams VVT Phaser Limiter Kit
-Comp Cams Retro-Fit Rocker Arm Trunion Kit
-PRC .650" or .675" Double Spring Kit (includes Spring Seats, Valve Seals, Dual Springs, and Titanium Retainers)
-Pushrods, I'm looking at TSP's Chromoly Pushrods but I'm not real sure there

Again sorry for topic change
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Old 12-26-2014, 06:04 PM   #24
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Push rods are something you'll need to measure for. Comp makes a tool that you can find pretty cheap.
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:26 PM   #25
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Well about to bite the bullet here and buy the Night Fury kit unless they are made on the Comp grind then I will go with another kit
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Noctis View Post
Well about to bite the bullet here and buy the Night Fury kit unless they are made on the Comp grind then I will go with another kit
I'm in the same boat I've heard so many good things about the night fury cam, and they do use cam motion not comp anymore.
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:37 PM   #27
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So it is said the smaller lift cam has made better power? Someone has any personal results
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Old 12-27-2014, 08:16 PM   #28
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hey Camaro kid do not forget the three bolt timing gear..... and to change to the ls2 dampener you have to pull the chain, I am still on the ls3 original timing chain and original rocker trunions, you have to drop the pan and then you might as well spill out at least $500 for the extra PITA for a mechanic to do it along with parts to go to a better timing chain, I went with a fluidampr balancer to get the best I know I have used as it has a viscous fluid in it to help eliminate vibrations...... and vibrations are hard on..... crank bearings and especially timing chains amongst other things..... and no the stock harmonic balancer is not meant for the vibrations in the range aftermarket cams make....
Some may knock me for using the best oil I have found through my research that is made specifically for our engine, and some may knock me for using a break in procedure, some may be pissed I just drove about 500 miles in the last two days.... LOL what ever..... go with what you know.

You may like to know the first and best company to talk to about changing your l99 up is mast motorsports, I used to dram of buying their stuff for my l99 2011 when I owned it....yet lived on to trade it without a single mod, as I knew it was not the one I wanted. And yes I always used to build automatics with stall converters and shift kits, you will want to up your torque converter for one for sure! And Mast was the first company to come out with parts to change the l99 to a ls3 type and ditch the AFM and change the phaser etc..... And BTW I do believe My tuner Wongs performance engineering owner Tom Wong would tell you 7.40 inch push rods are more the standard for the l99, now if your going to convert it to a ls3 if that changes? and if it is only being 25/100ths of an inch and having to lash the valves correctly and being hydraulic rollers if your just getting it to the exact right feel where the pushrod stops spinning then what ever adjustment after that zero lash....I dunno, I am just a old chevy guy that's why I deferred to the expert whose small performance shop lives off word of mouth and repeat customers.... And what effect it may have on total valve train noise? And I do know he does measure for length and would be the first to tell you: DO not believe everything you read over the internet! this is basically a chat room /social media and things in relations to this install of a cam from what I have read here over the years.......

well even the best install guide I read with pictures on the internet from a member that many used to install their cams had.... the person installing 7.4 pushrods in his ls3 engine...ugh, then limping the engine to a tuner who knows how many miles away? after not performing a break in on his cam and draining the oil....ugh My guy I used mr. Wong always drained the oil after the dyno tuning of the cars engine and in defacto was performing a kind of break in while manipulating the air fuel ratios with h.p. tuning.. something that is best done by someone with a lot of experience specifically on a LS engine and tuning it with a library or tunes and ability to be able to go to a fairly comparable camshafts install on a comparable engine and copy and paste fuel trim tables to try on the other engine and see how it affects the engine while its operating, along with things like removing CEL from longer response time from the front O2 sensors, eliminating almost if not all response delay from the potentiometers delay via electrical resistance on the gas pedal..., and things like important: removing most of the torque management so the car can more effectively get the power to the ground unless it absolutely needs some of the management in a bad situation as in: (a stabillitrac event going sideways at high speed etc....)

SO I would definitely talk to them if I were you. And remember that your valves are not the same as the LS3 as the ls3 valves are lighter and thus less a worry about valve floating so I would not up your upper rev limiter for one which is lower than a ls'3s. I also know that people are changing to what they think of as the ls7 lifter...you only have half of them the ls3 style as half your lifters are for AFM.... and as I have been lead to understand it all our lifters in ls3 engines are like the ls7 lifters .......... just as the rocker arms that were the first years design of the 427 ls7 for the vette with its trunions failing they changed... and we have the same design as the newer ls7s redesigned rocker etc.... I am no expert on that I just listened to the guru when he talked as I talked engine to him when I handed my baby over.....

Anyway good luck, I went with TSP as they are in the place.. Texas with more speed shops and major builders than anywhere else in the USA and they are LS engine specific and a little more LSA at 113 is good, some add extra LSA for more drivability yet it limits the top end h.p. numbers etc reading up is something I did thoroughly anywhere online before I trusted myself to get the parts, find the right tuner/builder to install, and what to expect along with talking to various parts suppliers and reading posts on here and results and ...utube...etc etc etc And plan on being smart and checking you valve springs down the road, I have plans to check mine every 25k with a spare set in hand because....... this amount of lift in our cams is very high, some old hot rodders think were friggin nuts...lol holy guacamole I just added a lot of stuff AND frac it disappeared:

My builder mr.Wong of wongs performance engineering would most likely tell you: 7.40 is the average need for a l99 motor and still has to be measured, now what effect changing and doing a ls3 conversion has on the need for the length and what the effect on total valve train noise is ? I dunno, and what the effect is on the geometry of a 2.5/100ths of inch change to length when you have to lash the hydraulics to zero lash and then how far ? I dunno, and can you believe everything you read on a social media/chat forum NO! DO I want some amateur working on my engine or doing it myself: I determined NO! I did not want a one size fits all canned tune either from a programmer I paid for and had to data log to try to tweak it from someone far away .... no, did I want to go with the best instructions I could find on the internet to do it myself: Hell no it showed the guy using 7.4 pushrods on a ls3, then a few other things not so well included in the instructions, and him limping the car unturned down the road after not doing a cam break in to a tuner who knows how far away....like WTF,

even my tuner who with a lot of people believe in the no you do not have to break in a roller cam: was in fact breaking in the cams by changing the oil AFTER dyno tuning them while adjusting the air fuel mixture etc etc etc with h.p. tuning while on the dyno and keeping them at good rpm while working on the car...... I believe in my builder as he is it, one guy one shop who survives off word of mouth and specialize in g.m. and corvettes and repeat customers. That's what old school hot rodding is about, anyone could build a small block chevy. some could do it better and word got out on who was the best for some that meant they were not.... For some who are better at say : oh being a commercial electrical engineer with a couple degrees then changing into tuner of cars, and yes anyone can turn a wrench, not everyone is going to be a master at manipulating software and changing fuel trims and copying and pasting from a library of past tunes from like engines with like cams while the car is operating....... well that's not something just anyone who is inexperienced is going to do well, and with out say having spent decades in engineering knowing the exactitude of tolerances that are required, and the mean effects of what is up.....

SO good luck to you, I am no expert yet have as you should spend a lot of time researching, and done what I can to ensure my engines longevity along with doing $100 oil changes by going to jiffy lube with my oil and filter " Driven ls30" is what I use, so hate on me, but by god if someday I pass someones broken down do it yourself friggin butt on the side of the road who just chewed up the cam they " so screwed up while installing their selves with the wrong sized non hardened pushrods or incorrect height set springs, bad non zero lashed, or no existent break in, or bad low Zddp oil or too many vibrations from the cams lope transferring to the crank and timing chain making it break, or the timing being off making backfires in the exhaust hurting it or low lean conditions melting things, etc etc etc By god its worth the friggin 2500$ I spent having someone else do the install and dyno tune for my headers and cam while I was busy at working doing what I do well...earn good money And for those of you who have not read it before just to aggravate some knuckle heads who swear oh my god its bad Chinese cam cores its flying monkeys with comp cam grinds making the ovens too cold in one cam oven back in Swang zhoo province that came from a melted down AMC Pacer that also went into the cam..... Here is the driven racing technical bulletin on proper lubrication/ breaking in the cam something that is always done on well :::::: any other cam except our kind.....lol and well when broken in properly only a 400% more successful cam for nascar.... I mean if people do not like the truth .........

GM LS Hydraulic Roller Cam Bulletin

Attn: GM LS Engine Owners
Re: Hydraulic Roller Cam & Lifter Failures Due To Improper Lubrication
As the marketplace stretches the power levels of the popular GM LS platform (especially in power adder applications), a marked increase is being seen in hydraulic roller cam lobe deterioration, along with lifter wheel and needle bearing failures. The root issue of this problem is a general lack of understanding about the lubrication needs of this engine platform.
Customers often do not consider the need for either a break-in oil or application specific formula due to the fact that their application utilizes a hydraulic roller cam. Since these LS engines are primarily for street/strip use, a typical customer may use a conventional 20W-50 “Racing Oil” or a similar off-the-shelf lubricant. The engines are thus not broken in with specialized break-in oil, meaning that the proper foundation for valve train durability is never established.
As street applications featuring the LS engine are not typically warmed up before driving, the heavy weight oil (such as 20W-50) is slower in flowing to the hydraulic roller lifters. The result is a lack of adequate lubrication. The LS platform pump and oiling system is designed for 5W-30 viscosity grade oil, so using heavier weight oil actually reduces lubrication and often leads to rapid valve train failure.
Driven Racing Oil™ recommends using BR30 Break-In Oil and LS30 Synthetic Street Performance Oil as a two-part solution to this growing problem.
By utilizing the BR30 Break-In Oil, the proper additive foundation will be introduced into the engine. This is accomplished first by breaking in the LS engine for 30 minutes to one hour much like a customer with a flat tappet valve train would. The customer should then drain the oil and change the filter, install a fresh fill of BR30 and continue to break-in the engine for the next 500 miles.
Due to the use of hydraulic lifters in these engines, it is critical that the oil be changed after break-in to remove the metal particulate created during the process. If these small particles are allowed to stay in the oil system for thousands of miles serious damage will occur.
After the break-in steps are complete, it is time to install the LS30 Synthetic Street Performance Oil, which is a properly formulated 5W-30 motor oil designed specifically for GM LS-based engines. The LS30 oil features mPAO synthetic base oil technology that increases High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) bearing oil film thickness, so the oil flows like a 5W-30 but protects like a 15W-40.
This innovative technology enables LS30 to provide the required viscosity for the LS oiling system and deliver the added protection required for higher lift cams and hydraulic roller lifters.
This two-step lubrication process provides the proper viscosity and additive chemistry for the unique requirements of modified GM LS engines with hydraulic roller valve trains. Properly completing this sequence of steps utilizing both the Driven BR30 Break-In Oil and LS30 Synthetic Street Performance Oil will establish the proper anti-wear film in the engine, remove harmful break-in particles and provide



I would like to say I did just as they recommended and did a double break in even though I think the second was a little excessive for already broken in engine with just a cam swap, and would like to add the stupid 2017 CAFE standards hit like GIANT falling turd from the EPA and our Presidents ARSE just as oil prices are back to where they should be (without tons of stock manipulation from the large investment firms driving up the price by speculation on 10000% of oil they have even on hand in the storage tanks that are mostly owned a lot by said investment houses now .... as the government finally did something right in regards to the market and stopped that a while back), and yes the new stupid twin 2017 oil standards are going to so much change the oil to two formulations that they will even more confuse a public that thinks just any old oil will do and why not use just this oil?

well one it may be 0w10 for a friggin turbo with no zddp what so ever and even if it was say 5w30 it may be the total wrong formulation with the wrong code and have no helpful mineral content at all in it to make your engine survive, and yes synthetics need the minerals from regular oil and yes it has to bond to it or it can be just like garbage that wont mix and say....using regular oil not engineered with the minerals and zddp able to bond to it with just a zddp additive that did not bond to it to break in flat tappet cam and watching the engine fail in your face as it eats the cam and lifters alive and spreads all that happy metal into all the bearings in the engine along with the happy places like bores and nice little cross hatch patterns in the chambers etc..... What I am saying is basically the sky is falling, it has been falling for a long time and wow just wait until the stock market falls....oh boy....I can remember kids when the stock market hit the historic day when it passed ten thousand for the first time ever and that was woo hoooo , now what stocks and great economic news came to make this great recovery and boom we have ? well for one the government ....US bailed out lots of stuff they can mess up again by being ripoffs and we will guarantee it, well also we made sure to mess up the entire healthcare market and got trillions in debt way more than any other presidents ever even dreamed of...like more than all other presidents combined times what? Oh yes and in this economy we have spurred what? employment while illegals come here...heck we have not even kept up with the growth of people graduating highschool for years and years, let alone all those dropping out and getting on SSD OMG......

My point: Camaros and all cars have to get lighter and get better gas mileage starting in 2017 the gas Nazis of the Employment Prevention Act determined we were maybe actually going to economically flourish without the use of the government controlled liberal media lying to us constantly to see what is in the other hand like a cheap parlor magician. SO as gas plummets the cars have to start getting 5 miles per gallon better fuel economy every year until the average of the fleet reaches 55 MPG, can you say turbo fiat 500 1 liter of massive power ..oh yes there will be a exemption for trucks which only have to get in the thirties...... Yes that sky is falling, and yes ford new f150 has a mostly aluminum body now...coincidence?

And then the reformulation of oil, going to be in two distinct types ...... yes one for those turbo 1 liter fiat 500's we all will be driving with no need for zddp in the oil at all or any other minerals except baby oil.......lol rofl As it might kill the ALLMIGHTY CATALYTIC CONVERTER the gift of the EPA to all of man kind, and god forbid we should ever piss on the shrine the ALLMIGHTY and mess with the FART BOX, and yes the other blend of oil will have some remnants of ZDDP in it yet really not enough unless you research and pick the right oil that is trying to hang on to minerals for oh say the sake of the motoring public not all immediately trading in their cars and Semi trucks for a new 1 liter turbo Abfart from fiat that BTW ...AL Gore will be saying is all the cause of global cooling by then. Have a nice day this is my rant, and maybe some where someone will read some of this and it may help them to save a ls3 engine some day, or put the right oil in their car some day, or understand why the Camaro has to get smaller and lighter and lighter and smaller and smaller and lighter and why they have turbo 4 liter mustangs now on the lot......whoopee turbo fours!!!! Yah baby I should be on t.v. with Lewis Black
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