LS3 Power Upgrade Kit (From GM; comes with OEM ECU tune!)

[Bretts]

cool thread!

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by X25

I think the kit comes with a work order code for free tuning done at the dealer. I would do the install myself anyway. I just can't trust cams from aftermarket suppliers. Anyone I know from the track venues with aftermarket cams have eventually lost their engines with no exceptions so far :(

How many of those losses were caused by camshaft or valve train issues?
Most I have seen were tune related,at the track. The street driven cams a lot of the failures I have seen were improper installs or crappy cam cores. Just curious on what you have seen.

[X25]

Originally Posted by Nor Cal ZL1

How many of those losses were caused by camshaft or valve train issues?
Most I have seen were tune related,at the track. The street driven cams a lot of the failures I have seen were improper installs or crappy cam cores. Just curious on what you have seen.

Some blame on oil they used, some on the lifters, tune, oil pump, etc. It doesn't really matter. Statistically speaking, OEM engines survive, while cammed engines fail.

My engine is stock with headers, and is tuned. I honestly don't trust the tune, especially now that I've heard my tuner has removed all the torque management in at least someone else's tune, but it doesn't grenade. OEM parts are much more reliable, for one reason or another in my experience.

[Superman09]

Posting for future reference

Sent from my campfire using smoke signals

[CamaroDreams76]

Originally Posted by X25

Some blame on oil they used, some on the lifters, tune, oil pump, etc. It doesn't really matter. Statistically speaking, OEM engines survive, while cammed engines fail.

My engine is stock with headers, and is tuned. I honestly don't trust the tune, especially now that I've heard my tuner has removed all the torque management in at least someone else's tune, but it doesn't grenade. OEM parts are much more reliable, for one reason or another in my experience.

Most tunes do take out all the torque management. Really wakes the car up. What scares me in a tune is when the knock sensors are desensitized a substantial amount. To the point where if there was pre-detonation, it still wouldn't register knock and retard timing. Most hand held canned tunes even take out the torque management.

[RobG]

No this is a completely different part number that contains an additional ECU tune from a GM Dealership. By all accounts that I can find is that the tune itself doesn't unlock much more than the 40hp that the original package offered but actually opens up the power band and allows the engine to rev at 7100 RPM. Others have reported that it is a 50+ HP increase. While the original Kit wasn't to expensive many have stayed away from it due to its lack of power compared to 3rd party hot cam swaps being cheaper and offering more power. This package isn't just about adding power its about getting the power quicker, and longer than stock applications.

Check this build thread already mentioned in this thread for details http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=429296&page=3

Originally Posted by CrystalRedTintcoat

Is this the same as the "dynamic duo" that Chevy had or their performance site?


-CRT

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[White_SS/RS]

I wouldn't worry about the torque management. Knock sensors however will always be a problem when you get into bigger cams. They pick up the choppy idle as pre-ignition or detonation. You’ll either have to deal with the timing it takes out or leave yourself susceptible to the onset of knock. If you’re looking to run the ASA cam it will have a choppy idle and the knock sensors will have to be tuned. Other GM cams will probably be OK.

[gajagfan]

I am sure that a big part if this kit increasing the RPM range to 7100 is the fact that the heads included outflow the stock heads and the cam included makes power at higher RPM than the stock one. You can't just tune for higher RPM unless the components support it.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

Could the 7100 RPM limit they chose, be a reflection of what their ported heads bring to the table based on their "tests"?

The LS7 redlines at 7100. I'm guessing that's why this kit also revs to 7100.

[X25]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The LS7 redlines at 7100. I'm guessing that's why this kit also revs to 7100.

Which is an amazing feat. LS7 gets there with light titanium valves.

[X25]

Originally Posted by Woodsman44

X25 - If you don't find one and want to take the plunge then I can certainly help. I've been down that road and can cut your learning curve in half. PM me if you want to talk.

Thank you! I might end up doing that, but it seems to require a bit of investment (HP Tuners and a wideband, etc.). I might hold up on that for a bit.

Originally Posted by CamaroDreams76

Most tunes do take out all the torque management. Really wakes the car up. What scares me in a tune is when the knock sensors are desensitized a substantial amount. To the point where if there was pre-detonation, it still wouldn't register knock and retard timing. Most hand held canned tunes even take out the torque management.

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

I wouldn't worry about the torque management. Knock sensors however will always be a problem when you get into bigger cams. They pick up the choppy idle as pre-ignition or detonation. You’ll either have to deal with the timing it takes out or leave yourself susceptible to the onset of knock. If you’re looking to run the ASA cam it will have a choppy idle and the knock sensors will have to be tuned. Other GM cams will probably be OK.

Good to know, thanks for chiming in guys. I never launch the car, so hopefully powertrain is not shocked too much, anyway.

[White_SS/RS]

The LS3 makes peak HP at 5900 but revs well into 6k. The LS7 makes peak HP at 6300 but revs to 7k. There are reasons to rev beyond a peak number, one being that power doesn’t rapidly drop after peaking. The engine still has something to offer. I can't believe that CNC ported LS3 heads make more power than LS7 heads but really it’s the cam determining the operating range of the engine. The LS7 cam is going to mimic the LS7 engine when in the LS3. For perspective GM crate versions of the LS3 and LS7 recommend 6600 and 7000 rev limits respectively. Obviously the kit; since its utilizing LS7 valve springs with smaller LS3 valves will support the 7100. Don’t know why GM would support it if it weren’t true. Truthfully there’s nothing exotic needed to run an engine to 7k. We’ve been running SBC’s since the 80’s at 7200. Past 7500, sure you should be looking at lighter components. Personally I think this is a great kit for someone who’s looking for a boost in power and RPM with OEM reliability.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

The LS3 makes peak HP at 5900 but revs well into 6k. The LS7 makes peak HP at 6300 but revs to 7k. There are reasons to rev beyond a peak number, one being that power doesn’t rapidly drop after peaking. The engine still has something to offer. I can't believe that CNC ported LS3 heads make more power than LS7 heads but really it’s the cam determining the operating range of the engine. The LS7 cam is going to mimic the LS7 engine when in the LS3. For perspective GM crate versions of the LS3 and LS7 recommend 6600 and 7000 rev limits respectively. Obviously the kit; since its utilizing LS7 valve springs with smaller LS3 valves will support the 7100. Don’t know why GM would support it if it weren’t true. Truthfully there’s nothing exotic needed to run an engine to 7k. We’ve been running SBC’s since the 80’s at 7200. Past 7500, sure you should be looking at lighter components. Personally I think this is a great kit for someone who’s looking for a boost in power and RPM with OEM reliability.

Our old school LS7 454 cubic inch big block crate engine makes power up to about 7100 RPM, so yes, nothing new about reving engines that high. Keep in mind these are steel rods and no high tech at all. Does it all day long in a drag racing scenario. Yes, the cam defines the power range, but the heads have to be able to move are in that RPM range as well. I have driven cars with 4000 RPM converters that stopped flowing at about 5500 RPM......not a very good combination!

[White_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

Our old school LS7 454 cubic inch big block crate engine makes power up to about 7100 RPM, so yes, nothing new about reving engines that high. Keep in mind these are steel rods and no high tech at all. Does it all day long in a drag racing scenario. Yes, the cam defines the power range, but the heads have to be able to move are in that RPM range as well. I have driven cars with 4000 RPM converters that stopped flowing at about 5500 RPM......not a very good combination!

Ya, having a cam that is more capable than the heads certainly won't produce the best results. I don't think the LS3 has those issues when paired with any GM cam.