My TSP LQ9 408 Stoker Build

[christianchevell]

Words of wisdom from a old motorhead.... Our engine maybe not your new one is designed for 5w30 oil, Cams even a stock cam could benefit yes even a roller with a break in period. Always use the best oil you can find with good ZDDP, I use Driven racing BR30 and double dumped before going to ls30 even just with a cam..one round for the break in and dyno, one round for 500 miles to establish a good break in, and I also did it when I got a new engine and pulled my TSP cam and after over 10k on my 235/239 which had .639.623 lift and 675 springs it was perfect for a standard bump stick not some 8620 core that was available back then.

' You most likely could use the stock engine .... fresh bearings maybe, but you are trying to see which came first and its either the chicken or the egg or a combination. Your to throwing money at it and now you might as well go with better than stock lifters and since your going with the twisted wedge you angle of the dangle is changed too so your going to scratch your head and have to call the makers to figure out what length of pushrod and preload you need even measuring.

You bought a Calloway which like other aftermarket slap a blower and some embroidery on it does not mean they did a good job insuring the longevity of the engine. Lack of the proper sheer on the oil would yes also like the wrong grade be able to slide the roller to death which is from your pic most likely the deal. The baskets have to be changed with a cam to; too help align the lifters also so they do not turn if installing a cam in a engine that has more than a few miles on, ( I write this to benefit others doing a cam swap). So your stock engine from the pics....someone could fix that or you may want to hang onto it.

Your getting a iron block is actually a good thing though heavier as if it lasts long enough you could bore it compared to a stock block which can only be honed .020 over.

Making it much more re-buildable though you personally will have to check over time the torque of the bolts as aluminum heads etc...intakes etc..tend to walk the bolts out over time as they expand and contract at a different rate.... More than once I have made /or saved a bundle by just new head gaskets from people not knowing to tighten the heads over time. You most likely will be coming in with less effective compression ratio and better PTV clearance for a good cam, and I would have chose one for a stroker myself but had to cool off my wallet as more requires more and more. This lessor amount of compression well it allows you to turn up the boost more and hopefully your head gaskets...... which the Calloway job was most likely as I said..sticking a blower on it stock and some appearance stuff and doing nothing for the trans, suspension, or other badly needed mods to support the blower..... Stock springs would not support crap so unless you changed it out any good shop would have trashed the stock springs.

Many things can contribute to the damage of the cam/lifter....a defective lifter, a badly cured in the oven stock cam ..even seen many stock ones fail, using the wrong oil for more pressure but starving the top end on start up causing massive wear, a lousy spring , no good break in of the cam or micro polish..... You have to be able to find form looking at all the other surfaces what you think did it. A stock roller lifter not having enough grip from using a too slick oil will not turn and simply glide itself to death making a flat spot on a roller or rollers and I have seen those over the years on here, the oil has to have a good sheer, the oil has to have enough ZDDP and not be worn out from racing and be changed at regular intervals and close intervals when racing.

A tiny kiss of the valve to the pistons top is no big deal its the damage to the bearings you want to look at when freshening up that fine short block for someone.....a bare ls3 block is 1300 ish area new. I spent 5 grand for my stroked forged short block, but don't plan on it living forever like a iron block just its internals. $2500 is about the average for a real good rotating assembly. And I got the best I could and someday may spray, or go small bore ls7 heads its just a matter of time and money...

Good Luck to you, I damn well know I would spend the money for a break in and break in oil..... I used two rounds of BR30, then 3k miles on VR30 all work as a conventional break in oil. You did ask about the rings on those pistons being good for boost.../the pistons too???? If you really want to turn it up everything matters.

You show one lifter not the cam and its tracking on all the lobes as a badly heated /broken in cam would show pitting on more than one lobe in the same area usually about 4 lobes of a bad area at least, if that helps you think which came first the chicken or the egg. And as you should know with our high lifts a stock spring is crap, and even racing springs need to be changed out over time or risk valve float or breakage... and the preload and oiling is critical and you need oiling worse with FI also.... and it does wearout the oil quicker also. There is a good tech article/bulletin I have shared over time about the need to break in a roller cam from driven racing oil.. They made the BR30 for joe gibbs sprint cup race cars that ate the lifters/cam at a rate of 1 in 10 on the engine stand breaking in compared to 1 in 40 with the break in oil. Todays oil is crap mostly for a old engine, lower ZDDP as it hurts the cats ..a damn shame old motor heads have to have a good oil or they watch their engine go to crap even just trying to break it in and cannot depend on just using a ZDDP additive as shown by the gas monkey guys with their Shelby hertz build on that 2 part show of theirs. You cannot depend on off the shelf motor oils when into performance in other words unless your mild...not wild. And maybe not even then when it comes to good old flat tappets.

[CALLAWAY11]

@ Christian Chevelle, first off, wow, I really appreciate all the infornation
that you have shared with me and most important, your time. I respect what you say and over the years have noticed all the information that share with all of us, I appreciate that. You obviously know way more about cars then I do and my information is based off of what my tuners have told me, being a member on here and being completely obsessed with this car since I bought it.

To reply back to some of your comments. When I purchased my my block I talked to Texas speed many times telling them my goals with the car and where I'd like to be with it eventually. I want to be near 1000 to the wheels and they said this will be no problem with my block. It came with break in oil, which kind, I have no idea. As for my old block, I'm not sure what to do with it, I'd have to sink money into it to have gone through and then my biggest issue is lugging that thing around, it's stupid heavy. I'd like to keep it but I'm going to need a garage for all my left over parts. I pretty much upgraded everything, I went with Johnson lifters, they're the same ones in the coop camaro which I think will work just fine.
And I can't find the picture to my old cam but it's seriously chewed up. Italked amazing what that little piece of metal from the lifter did to my cam. I'm going to make a lamp out of it and use the lifter for the switch, lol, it'll be a reminder for me. I'll continue to post more as time goes by. Thanks for your input.

[TrevinE]

Man i feel your pain. I had almost completed my build then all of a sudden, at 758RWHP the crank pulley spun and ruined the crank and hub. For a $100 crank pin, i was faced with the labor of puling the motor and just replacing the crank or just do the right thing and be done with it. Needless to say, the motor is at LME in Houston for a full 416 build, new cam, ported and polished heads. Not the time I had planned to do this but now i shouldn't have to worry about anything. Hopefully i am DONE for a while. Good luck on the results.

[CALLAWAY11]

Originally Posted by TrevinE

Man i feel your pain. I had almost completed my build then all of a sudden, at 758RWHP the crank pulley spun and ruined the crank and hub. For a $100 crank pin, i was faced with the labor of puling the motor and just replacing the crank or just do the right thing and be done with it. Needless to say, the motor is at LME in Houston for a full 416 build, new cam, ported and polished heads. Not the time I had planned to do this but now i shouldn't have to worry about anything. Hopefully i am DONE for a while. Good luck on the results.

Damn, that sucks & I understand the feeling. Yeah mine was also unexpected and I didn't need to do everything I did but wanted peace of mind moving forward. But I'm fortunate to be able to fix this the way that I am. What's the ETA on your build which sounds completely ridiculous. I wanted the 416 but didn't have the cash or the patience for them to build it, they had the 408 in stock and in my budget. I also upgraded to a 8 rib setup on my blower and will be able to squeeze every horse out of it to see what the max out put is on the Maggie. Good luck on your build also

[TrevinE]

Originally Posted by CALLAWAY11

Damn, that sucks & I understand the feeling. Yeah mine was also unexpected and I didn't need to do everything I did but wanted peace of mind moving forward. But I'm fortunate to be able to fix this the way that I am. What's the ETA on your build which sounds completely ridiculous. I wanted the 416 but didn't have the cash or the patience for them to build it, they had the 408 in stock and in my budget. I also upgraded to a 8 rib setup on my blower and will be able to squeeze every horse out of it to see what the max out put is on the Maggie. Good luck on your build also

Engine should be done this week. The rest of the parts are waiting so we can put it back together as soon as it's done. If you are considering the 8 rib, check out the pegasus 10 rib system. I did that too and was able to get to a 2.825" whipple pulley to stick at 16.5# of boost. With the engine done, a 102mm throttle body, and triple disc stall, the paper numbers get it to 900rwhp on my builders mustang dyno. We'll see what happens. Perhaps only a week or so away.

[CALLAWAY11]

Originally Posted by TrevinE

Engine should be done this week. The rest of the parts are waiting so we can put it back together as soon as it's done. If you are considering the 8 rib, check out the pegasus 10 rib system. I did that too and was able to get to a 2.825" whipple pulley to stick at 16.5# of boost. With the engine done, a 102mm throttle body, and triple disc stall, the paper numbers get it to 900rwhp on my builders mustang dyno. We'll see what happens. Perhaps only a week or so away.

Nice, it seems we are running neck to neck. I'm hoping for the same timeline as yourself

[christianchevell]

Your iron block should be good for the boost, yes and TSP does include BR30 with all new blocks BTW...... no break in oil no warranty some places..... if a warranty at all. Unlike my build your not a daily driver etc.... and that's a different category of build to go all out so your best info will come from speed shops that are long standing and make race cars like my tuner not a fly by night. Your in about the best hands you can be with TSP and would refer back to them as they are the largest LS engine place there is. My engine was short block from Sag performance group / custom engine supply ....Jerry a machinist in Angola Indiana who talked me through it and sells engines on ebay like a few other larger shops. I run a 428 actually and its maxed out for torque and N/A with racetek pistons and Molnar rotating...Old motor heads like me research things thoroughly... Molnar makes the parts others brag about...say Callies or K1 Wisco its a Molnar, Racetek is in Cal started by the owner of JE pistons who sold JE the largest maker in the world to go smaller and get out of the cold of Detroit. The pistons I paid extra for to get expedited as they are in that much of a back log when I got them and are designed with the correct skirts, correct landings and all together right to go that far stroked..every part has to work together right.

Of course I have a C5r chain and LS2 dogbone and a good high volume pump and even more important the Fluidampr harmonic balancer not a cheap POS most get by with when doing a under drive just to think they got a couple HP when I have seen the SLP ones fall apart just like a bad stock one with the rubber ring blowing out...the same rubber ring sandwiched between two hunks of metal as in every old motor ever that's not so good for a radical cammed vibrating car shaking MOFO...lol ...

I Hope you have more than the upgrades to the rear than you can fit on the screen, the LPW cover is nice to keep the stock small gear aluminum rear together and the zl1 only slightly better for rear ends and if you do go 9" Ford that's a chunk of money..and you could sell the parts on here for other stuff as a two piece rear drive line is not the most solid. I run Monster for a clutch as McLeod is more spendy and not so much for better in quality and the thing feels stock, if you ran a monster you would have to upgrade the slave for the 1000 hp model mines only 700 and its able to use the ss slave..the lt1s twin disc. And yes hopefully you have the crank pinned...?

The shock you get will transfer to the rear so I hope it is set up for it, and I would go with a stroker type cam and will in the future but yours would have to be a blower cam...... I could use a lot more duration to my cam because I can fill that much more space in the cylinders, and I went smaller on purpose because its just a daily driver and I don't have the funds to dump 3 grand right now on small bore ls7 heads and then get a Airforce and 102.... Let alone think of plumbing the nitrous and I am at 11 to 1 which I could be a lot less if I wanted to go FI ever..... that's a dream of major money...LOL more likely to go used c-7 zo6 down the road for that .... yes I am that old. To the Resto mod guy...MY tuner who I like to call the best in the west well he uses LME all the time for builds..... and yes he hates some places like say a SLP blower that comes with squat for instructions.... And which came first the chicken or the egg.... I hope your bushing your trunnions, using volume for oil not pressure...and have a nice deep sump as you never want to run dry.....OH and BTW I had to alter the MAST windage tray made for a stroker even to make it work on mine even more......back when guys first were stroking the LS they were stupid as in making pistons not meant for the stroke work with their inevitable failure, they also did dumb things like hack and washer for clearance the stock windage trays etc.... that many thought were problems with stroking the engines when it was just their hack work mainly, my pistons are meant to not be rocking in the bores and your 408 should be actually safer than a 416 as far as rock. My engines clearance for the stroke, the con rods clearanced also, the pistons short skirts and reinforced ring lands along with the rings are all made for my purpose, If I ever went to a lot of NOS I would have to swap out rings but I am not that crazy about power on a bottle and would not use it that much more of a few times on the track and rare as things can go south very quick the more you know the more it costs....LOL bottle warmers are just one small part....not going all OKC crazy friggin fat and furious here..... Just into power and screw the dumbos tail gating in their whatever who are the kings of the road driving to try to kill pedestrians and prove they have a 1" slong. Sold my used engine stuff PDQ for cheaper on craigs list and advertising on here in the forum parts thread...

[CALLAWAY11]

So my motor is done on the builders end. At this point, it will be put back in the car and everything else will be added. It looks like a full blown race car, lol, I love it. Hopefully no later then next Friday and I will be hurting some feelings shortly after.

[DvKillar]

nice! so what is with your valve covers? those stock for V8's and have bungs for the stock plastic motor covers?

[CALLAWAY11]

Originally Posted by DvKillar

nice! so what is with your valve covers? those stock for V8's and have bungs for the stock plastic motor covers?

Yeah, those are the stock ones. I'm assuming that the trick flow heads don't come with covers? And they use the stock ones because they had no choice, I'm guessing, regardless, I don't think it matters. I have carbon fiber ones the covers these up anyways.

[8balldeluxe]

Killer

[christianchevell]

Cool, I know there are others on here in the past that have done up the trick flow heads for their builds and that the geometry is a little different angle and therefore require pushrods in sizes more outside the norm for a ls3 with stock lifters and measuring is of course required for lifters anyway be it johnsons, or morrels or other and the final specs of pushrod length and preload would be the couple of things I would want to know along with of course PTV clearance and save the installed parts info together with the blueprint.

That and well wanting to figure out when down the road to go back in and torque down the head bolts over again in what interval to avoid any problem with thermal expansion of the heads versus the block. I would normally check the head bolts in like 25k intervals on a SBC/BBC just because for me that's a good chunk of driving like 4 years.
Good Luck !

[CALLAWAY11]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

Cool, I know there are others on here in the past that have done up the trick flow heads for their builds and that the geometry is a little different angle and therefore require pushrods in sizes more outside the norm for a ls3 with stock lifters and measuring is of course required for lifters anyway be it johnsons, or morrels or other and the final specs of pushrod length and preload would be the couple of things I would want to know along with of course PTV clearance and save the installed parts info together with the blueprint.

That and well wanting to figure out when down the road to go back in and torque down the head bolts over again in what interval to avoid any problem with thermal expansion of the heads versus the block. I would normally check the head bolts in like 25k intervals on a SBC/BBC just because for me that's a good chunk of driving like 4 years.
Good Luck !

Thank you

[iiAmSosaa]

I know this is a couple of years back, but im trying to do my research for something similar, just curious if the LQ mounted right in where the factory LS3 was? I heard some sensors have to be swapped over or extended also but i dont see much info on it. Your build looks insane!