1LE brakes upgrade... help needed - Page 4 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Synner · 11-01-2012, 06:42 PM

Word. Although I experienced pad failure as well as fluid failure before I upgraded both. That's the beauty of upgrading 1 thing at a time, you learn a lot more about the car that way. Stock calipers are very nice and only begin to fall short on tracks with multiple high speed straights once equipped with good pads/fluid.

And I'll be racing the piss out of the CTSV's next summer.

speedmon · 11-02-2012, 03:06 AM

If these CTS-V calipers get any cheaper I may have to try it. $227...that is but low.
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-25...1&s=automotive

If you can live with the yellow.....
The cheapest you could go per wheel is....
Caliper=$227
Rotor=$100
Pins and Clip Kit=$15
Pads=$75
Bolt=$10 (should be new)

So thats only $427 per wheel....for two fronts $850....but you don't really know if the engineering is interchangeable. Does anybody know the answer to this?

The Brembo two peice CTS-V rotors are very cool.....but also $850 for 2.....which pushes the cost way up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brembo-2pc-F...7b90fe&vxp=mtr

PartsTaxi.com · 11-05-2012, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedmon

If these CTS-V calipers get any cheaper I may have to try it. $227...that is but low.
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-25...1&s=automotive

If you can live with the yellow.....
The cheapest you could go per wheel is....
Caliper=$227
Rotor=$100
Pins and Clip Kit=$15
Pads=$75
Bolt=$10 (should be new)

So thats only $427 per wheel....for two fronts $850....but you don't really know if the engineering is interchangeable. Does anybody know the answer to this?

The Brembo two peice CTS-V rotors are very cool.....but also $850 for 2.....which pushes the cost way up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brembo-2pc-F...7b90fe&vxp=mtr

That's a really strong price on those rotors. Don't know the seller, or anything, but I wonder what the situation is. I'm a GM dealer, and that is way under dealer cost. Just wonder if they are new, or overruns, or blems. Hopefully not, hopefully it's good new product with no flaws and a warranty. Sometimes though, things just look too good to be true. I know alot of you don't know me here, so to show you I'm not full of s**t, attached file is a screen shot of where I looked them up with GM and shows dealer cost.

tramtwo · 11-05-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PartsTaxi.com

That's a really strong price on those rotors. Don't know the seller, or anything, but I wonder what the situation is. I'm a GM dealer, and that is way under dealer cost. Just wonder if they are new, or overruns, or blems. Hopefully not, hopefully it's good new product with no flaws and a warranty. Sometimes though, things just look too good to be true. I know alot of you don't know me here, so to show you I'm not full of s**t, attached file is a screen shot of where I looked them up with GM and shows dealer cost.

...like your style.

Synner · 11-06-2012, 04:04 PM

The $100 rotors are generic crap from china probably. Lowest I've seen the dual cast is 200.

speedmon · 11-06-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PartsTaxi.com

That's a really strong price on those rotors. Don't know the seller, or anything, but I wonder what the situation is. I'm a GM dealer, and that is way under dealer cost. Just wonder if they are new, or overruns, or blems. Hopefully not, hopefully it's good new product with no flaws and a warranty. Sometimes though, things just look too good to be true. I know alot of you don't know me here, so to show you I'm not full of s**t, attached file is a screen shot of where I looked them up with GM and shows dealer cost.

Did you mean calipers and not rotors?.....you said rotor but the PDF you attached was for a caliper.
The price for a HD CTS-V rotor on your site is $85.00

Buy Yeah! Amazon has smoking low prices eh?
Availability moves around though....

Do you at PartTaxi offer an integrated kit for this CTS-V swap.

Can you tell me why these parts seem interchangeable?
Are the knuckles and the hubs the same spec between the Camaro and the CTS-V?

speedmon · 11-06-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synner

The $100 rotors are generic crap from china probably. Lowest I've seen the dual cast is 200.

Do you think the "dual cast" Brembo rotors are not made in China.
Quote from a Brembo press release.

"With more than ten years in the Chinese market, Brembo has concentrated production activities of the Group into a single area of 95,000 square meters on the outskirts of the city of Nanjing.......The plants employ 850 people (approx. 1000 at full capacity) and, due to the 41 production lines (between brake discs and brake systems) and the foundry, will be able to produce about six million brake discs a year."

Firefighter · 11-06-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedmon

Do you think the "dual cast" Brembo rotors are not made in China.
Quote from a Brembo press release.

"With more than ten years in the Chinese market, Brembo has concentrated production activities of the Group into a single area of 95,000 square meters on the outskirts of the city of Nanjing.......The plants employ 850 people (approx. 1000 at full capacity) and, due to the 41 production lines (between brake discs and brake systems) and the foundry, will be able to produce about six million brake discs a year."

Well that's a kick in the nuts... lol nothing is sacred anymore.

Firefighter · 11-06-2012, 05:06 PM

I wonder if Centric makes rotors for the ZL1/SS. They are the same company as Stop Tech. The Stop Tech rotors are just reworked premium Centric rotors. I have used them with good results for about 5 or 6 years now.

Their prices are usually quite good.

Synner · 11-06-2012, 05:09 PM

Didn't say that, but theres a huge difference between them and the crap off-brand single piece rotors that will warp the first time used.

And the calipers say made in Italy.

The real sad part is the supposedly 2 piece brembos on the ZL-1 are the same as the "upgrade" for CTSV's and they're disposable because they don't make replacement friction discs. Completely defeats the purpose.

Firefighter · 11-06-2012, 05:31 PM

It almost seems like in the long run you are better off (if you track the car) getting some high end two piece rotors just so it can be cheaper to replace the rotors in the future. Street use only the rotors will last years. I drive like hell and I have a set of rotors going on 6 years and almost 70K miles. On the track you would need to replace them a little more often... lol

speedmon · 11-06-2012, 11:19 PM

Ya know.....
I researched that CTS-V caliper....it may be assembled in italy....but the components are most likely fabbed in china....slight of hand stuff. We do that in the US too.

Brembo does make a "race spec" CTS-V caliper which is more similar to the Wilwood product.....actually a tad better because it has "titanium" pistons...very WOW and oooooo.
I wonder if that would bolt straight up to the Camaro....they looked awesome.....but I couldn't find any for sale.....probably a bit more than $230.

speedmon · 11-06-2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefighter

It almost seems like in the long run you are better off (if you track the car) getting some high end two piece rotors just so it can be cheaper to replace the rotors in the future. Street use only the rotors will last years. I drive like hell and I have a set of rotors going on 6 years and almost 70K miles. On the track you would need to replace them a little more often... lol

You are correct....when I was using OEM spec brake stuff on my Z06 I could get it work with fluids and high temp pads , but I would eat through a few sets of pads and rotors every season.

But I put the Wilwood Big Brakes on.....and its been two seasons now and I just changed the pads(but didn't need too) and the rotors are fine.....they are just "overbuilt".

Todd TCE · 11-07-2012, 10:40 AM

The debate between running 1pc and 2pc rotors has raged on for years. There are clearly benefits to each.

1pc: usually very cost effective pricing for replacements. Local auto store in many cases and easy to find a replacement if you need on in a pinch. Generally 4-6lbs heavier in mass but most of that is in the center and has marginal impact on performance given a full weight car. Most are non directional cast and flow less air at speed than 2pc. Can become heat saturated due to iron hat and center possibly transferring more heat to the bearings as well. Many can be easily turned if they have warpage/deposit issue as they are usually sold 'plain' - without holes or slots. Easy to install- remove from box and fit. Replacement costs; $80-125ea depending upon the car and supplier.

2pc: One time, more costly 'buy in' vs 1pc. Can be upwards of $8-900pr at times if you only purchase them without a "complete" kit in which case you'd spend perhaps $1700 for all of it- including the calipers, pads and hoses. Sold usually as a "complete kit" given the buyer the benefit (arguable) of obtaining the above parts also. Castings are always directional at this point. Improved air flow at speed. No gains for the dd at this level however. Generally 4-6lbs lighter (yet often larger if sold in complete kit) than 1pc making for more effective weight and lower inertia issues. Improved heat management for better cooling as well as the air flow, possibly lowering bearing temps too. Many shops refuse to cut or turn them due to the interrupted cut caused by gas slotting or holes. (can be done, just slow or by grinding). More complex to service often requiring hardware and assembly time. Replacement costs; $250-300ea range.

The most common question is "if the 2pc is better (arguably so) is it 3X as better given the cost? That's hard to quantify. Given the quality of the rotors from Wilwood (think Spec37 parts) and other top suppliers....I'd say the life cycle is easily equal too, most likely double but questionably 3X the life. That's so subjective based upon the pads being use, the track use, the street use, how one drives, even if the car has an automatic trans in it. Overall I think you'll find the benefits of the 2pc are there for the more hardcore users but at the "cost of doing business". The budget guys however can get by on the one piece quite well.

Seeing that it's harder to find an exact replacement 2pc of the same diameter that alone makes the comparing of them tough. A 1" larger disc will always operate more efficiently. Perhaps even a 1pc larger vs 2pc smaller. Mass is mass and using it well is the key.

11-01-2012, 06:42 PM	#43
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,545	Word. Although I experienced pad failure as well as fluid failure before I upgraded both. That's the beauty of upgrading 1 thing at a time, you learn a lot more about the car that way. Stock calipers are very nice and only begin to fall short on tracks with multiple high speed straights once equipped with good pads/fluid. And I'll be racing the piss out of the CTSV's next summer.

11-02-2012, 03:06 AM	#44
speedmon Drives: C6 Z06 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Orange, CA Posts: 572	If these CTS-V calipers get any cheaper I may have to try it. $227...that is but low. http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-25...1&s=automotive If you can live with the yellow..... The cheapest you could go per wheel is.... Caliper=$227 Rotor=$100 Pins and Clip Kit=$15 Pads=$75 Bolt=$10 (should be new) So thats only $427 per wheel....for two fronts $850....but you don't really know if the engineering is interchangeable. Does anybody know the answer to this? The Brembo two peice CTS-V rotors are very cool.....but also $850 for 2.....which pushes the cost way up. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brembo-2pc-F...7b90fe&vxp=mtr

11-06-2012, 04:04 PM	#47
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,545	The $100 rotors are generic crap from china probably. Lowest I've seen the dual cast is 200.

11-06-2012, 05:06 PM	#51
Firefighter Drives: Black '13 2SS/RS/1LE w/NPP/NAV Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Tampa by way of Miami... Posts: 4,934	I wonder if Centric makes rotors for the ZL1/SS. They are the same company as Stop Tech. The Stop Tech rotors are just reworked premium Centric rotors. I have used them with good results for about 5 or 6 years now. Their prices are usually quite good.

11-06-2012, 05:09 PM	#52
Synner Drives: cars Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oversneeze Posts: 4,545	Didn't say that, but theres a huge difference between them and the crap off-brand single piece rotors that will warp the first time used. And the calipers say made in Italy. The real sad part is the supposedly 2 piece brembos on the ZL-1 are the same as the "upgrade" for CTSV's and they're disposable because they don't make replacement friction discs. Completely defeats the purpose.

11-06-2012, 05:31 PM	#53
Firefighter Drives: Black '13 2SS/RS/1LE w/NPP/NAV Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Tampa by way of Miami... Posts: 4,934	It almost seems like in the long run you are better off (if you track the car) getting some high end two piece rotors just so it can be cheaper to replace the rotors in the future. Street use only the rotors will last years. I drive like hell and I have a set of rotors going on 6 years and almost 70K miles. On the track you would need to replace them a little more often... lol

11-06-2012, 11:19 PM	#54
speedmon Drives: C6 Z06 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Orange, CA Posts: 572	Ya know..... I researched that CTS-V caliper....it may be assembled in italy....but the components are most likely fabbed in china....slight of hand stuff. We do that in the US too. Brembo does make a "race spec" CTS-V caliper which is more similar to the Wilwood product.....actually a tad better because it has "titanium" pistons...very WOW and oooooo. I wonder if that would bolt straight up to the Camaro....they looked awesome.....but I couldn't find any for sale.....probably a bit more than $230.

11-07-2012, 10:40 AM	#56
Todd TCE Drives: Wells Coyote Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: tempe Posts: 77	The debate between running 1pc and 2pc rotors has raged on for years. There are clearly benefits to each. 1pc: usually very cost effective pricing for replacements. Local auto store in many cases and easy to find a replacement if you need on in a pinch. Generally 4-6lbs heavier in mass but most of that is in the center and has marginal impact on performance given a full weight car. Most are non directional cast and flow less air at speed than 2pc. Can become heat saturated due to iron hat and center possibly transferring more heat to the bearings as well. Many can be easily turned if they have warpage/deposit issue as they are usually sold 'plain' - without holes or slots. Easy to install- remove from box and fit. Replacement costs; $80-125ea depending upon the car and supplier. 2pc: One time, more costly 'buy in' vs 1pc. Can be upwards of $8-900pr at times if you only purchase them without a "complete" kit in which case you'd spend perhaps $1700 for all of it- including the calipers, pads and hoses. Sold usually as a "complete kit" given the buyer the benefit (arguable) of obtaining the above parts also. Castings are always directional at this point. Improved air flow at speed. No gains for the dd at this level however. Generally 4-6lbs lighter (yet often larger if sold in complete kit) than 1pc making for more effective weight and lower inertia issues. Improved heat management for better cooling as well as the air flow, possibly lowering bearing temps too. Many shops refuse to cut or turn them due to the interrupted cut caused by gas slotting or holes. (can be done, just slow or by grinding). More complex to service often requiring hardware and assembly time. Replacement costs; $250-300ea range. The most common question is "if the 2pc is better (arguably so) is it 3X as better given the cost? That's hard to quantify. Given the quality of the rotors from Wilwood (think Spec37 parts) and other top suppliers....I'd say the life cycle is easily equal too, most likely double but questionably 3X the life. That's so subjective based upon the pads being use, the track use, the street use, how one drives, even if the car has an automatic trans in it. Overall I think you'll find the benefits of the 2pc are there for the more hardcore users but at the "cost of doing business". The budget guys however can get by on the one piece quite well. Seeing that it's harder to find an exact replacement 2pc of the same diameter that alone makes the comparing of them tough. A 1" larger disc will always operate more efficiently. Perhaps even a 1pc larger vs 2pc smaller. Mass is mass and using it well is the key.