NO PERFORMANCE GAINS ACHEIVED WITH MOST MODIFICATIONS - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

axis · 10-21-2009, 10:23 PM

Unfortunately on a NA car, you're stuck with small gains that turn into a overall bigger gains. Ever hear the term "ounces make pounds"? Coming from a turbo car where you can just crank a knob and get 50+whp it takes a little getting use to but these are the facts. Add to it that you're getting the "almost corvette" tax added since it's such a new platform and it is a NEW Camaro. If you want REAL gains, give your new car a MUCH NEEDED diet and put it on the bottle. That will give you 100+whp for less than $500. It will still pass emmisions and won't void your warrany, if you take it off before taking it in. Unless i'm mistaken, there isn't a "nitrous" trigger in the ECU and it won't show up in a Tech II report.

1320junkie · 10-21-2009, 10:25 PM

Folks tend to make the Dyno a godlike item when in reality it's just a calibration tool.

drtwo · 10-21-2009, 11:13 PM

I like the responses and still feel that unless you are going to (down the line) do some major modification (NOS, TURBO, SUPERCHARGER) which the VAST majority are NOT, headers and CAI may give you a few extra horsepower, but until you gain well over 100+ HP you won't see any TRUE performace gain (ie.. compare the V6 to the V8 in the 1/4 mile times...and that's OVER 120 EXTRA HP!!!!) 10 here and 20 there will only give you milliseconds... so unless you are a hard core racer...DO IT ONLY FOR THE SHOW, NOT THE 'GO'...

drtwo · 10-21-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POWERFREAK

Let me guess...you're keeping your car stock?

I dunno...you can pretty easily get 50hp without any major modifications (intake/headers/tune)...50hp is a difference that you can feel. Right now I just have a Vararam and a tune...and it's made a HUGE difference "in real life".

btw I plan to put axle back exhaust for better sound, but not any gain... but I'm not bashing anyone at all... spend! Spend! Personalize your car to make it kick A$$, (and stimulate the economy while your at it!)

PS... someone still needs to explain why 120 extra HP from the V6 to the V8 give only tenths of seconds in improved performance?

coolman · 10-21-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drtwo

I like the responses and still feel that unless you are going to (down the line) do some major modification (NOS, TURBO, SUPERCHARGER) which the VAST majority are NOT, headers and CAI may give you a few extra horsepower, but until you gain well over 100+ HP you won't see any TRUE performace gain (ie.. compare the V6 to the V8 in the 1/4 mile times...and that's OVER 120 EXTRA HP!!!!) 10 here and 20 there will only give you milliseconds... so unless you are a hard core racer...DO IT ONLY FOR THE SHOW, NOT THE 'GO'...

I don't know Jimmy Johnsons adds a 1/2lb of air to the right rear and damn near lapps the field.

1320junkie · 10-21-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drtwo

I like the responses and still feel that unless you are going to (down the line) do some major modification (NOS, TURBO, SUPERCHARGER) which the VAST majority are NOT, headers and CAI may give you a few extra horsepower, but until you gain well over 100+ HP you won't see any TRUE performace gain (ie.. compare the V6 to the V8 in the 1/4 mile times...and that's OVER 120 EXTRA HP!!!!) 10 here and 20 there will only give you milliseconds... so unless you are a hard core racer...DO IT ONLY FOR THE SHOW, NOT THE 'GO'...

you can spend a few thousand on suspension and the car handles totally different...and the pest performance mod in my mind is a driving school...but anyway..I dont believe in NOS, turbo's or superchargers...but I do believe in more cubes head work cams etc...im a n/a guy to my core

coolman · 10-21-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

you can spend a few thousand on suspension and the car handles totally different...and the pest performance mod in my mind is a driving school...but anyway..I dont believe in NOS, turbo's or superchargers...but I do believe in more cubes head work cams etc...im a n/a guy to my core

you have a zr1 and don't believe in superchargers?

1320junkie · 10-21-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolman

you have a zr1 and don't believe in superchargers?

Nope I got rid of it as I enjoyed my LPE Z06 a lot better...and it was a business move i bout it at MSRP and sold it for way over...made over 28k on the sale

coolman · 10-21-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

Nop I got rid of it as I enjoyed my LPE Z06 a lot better...and it was a business move i bout it at MSRP and sold it for way over...made over 28k on the sale

I'm with you. I love the z06. I hoping to get one in early spring.

2SSRS@Gen5diy · 10-21-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

you can spend a few thousand on suspension and the car handles totally different...and the pest performance mod in my mind is a driving school...but anyway..I dont believe in NOS, turbo's or superchargers...but I do believe in more cubes head work cams etc...im a n/a guy to my core

Same for me no superchargers only big CI and internal mods.

Kelso · 10-21-2009, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertway

After trying to fully absorb the CAI results thread (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48202) my understanding is that the CAI by itself doesn't do all that much dollars per hp but instead opens the door to fully utilizing other mods down the line (long tubes, hi-flow exhaust, even forced induction). The stock intake will eventually become a restrictor plate once other things are added to the engine's "respiratory system". Now I could be totally off base with this but the CAI seems to be the first logical step in fully exploiting what the engine will eventually be capable of.

well written

*The_Blur* · 10-21-2009, 11:55 PM

The cost difference between a V6 and a V8 is a one-time charge, so your logic is somewhat sound, but you're forgetting the lifelong costs of insurance, fuel, and maintenance that makes the V8 much more costly for someone whose performance goals may not be as ambitious. If someone only wants 500 hp, the V6 can reach that high with less expensive insurance, cheaper fuel, and less oil. The V8 would cost much more over time to hit the same number simply because insurance is higher and the recommended fuel is premium, but let's not ignore how much more oil it takes to keep the engine properly lubricated. A V6 is simply less money in the long run.

On the other hand, more can be done with the V8 as far as higher gains. Each modification gets better performance when placed in a high-displacement engine compared to a low-displacement engine. In this category, the V8 is a clear win. An exhaust, for instance, is more likely to produce better gains in a V8 than a V6 when all else is equal. Finally, let's also remember that the V8 can be pushed harder and longer than the V6.

There's a lot of good sense when it comes to getting the V6. Let's not knock a good decision.

DTM · 10-22-2009, 12:44 AM

I think 75% of the reason people do exhaust, is for the sound, as for an intake system, that's quite a bit of power that can be felt easily and will make your car run muuuch better!

dragonZ28 · 10-22-2009, 01:39 AM

You're coming at this form the wrong angle. Proven mods do work, and they work as a team. Intake and headers together will outperform the numbers from both individually added together.

Bolt-ons do work and are proven to increase HP and TQ while reducing E.T.s.

I can tell you that most bolt-on and cam LS1 cars will beat a supercharged LS1 car. FI is a nice way to get power without having severe driveability hinderances. Not everyone wants to drive a cam-loping, monster that sounds like it's brewing a thunderstorm, but I do.

Also, if you are simply looking at peak numbers, you are missing the point. What you really want is nice gains under the curve. You want newfound power in the entire RPM band. Peak numbers don't tell nearly part of the story.

10-21-2009, 11:13 PM	#17
drtwo Drives: 2SS RS Yellow, Raptor, Vrod Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South Dakota Posts: 599 View My Garage	I like the responses and still feel that unless you are going to (down the line) do some major modification (NOS, TURBO, SUPERCHARGER) which the VAST majority are NOT, headers and CAI may give you a few extra horsepower, but until you gain well over 100+ HP you won't see any TRUE performace gain (ie.. compare the V6 to the V8 in the 1/4 mile times...and that's OVER 120 EXTRA HP!!!!) 10 here and 20 there will only give you milliseconds... so unless you are a hard core racer...DO IT ONLY FOR THE SHOW, NOT THE 'GO'... __________________ 2SS RS Rally Yellow, LS3, M6, sunroof, extra on the fast!

10-21-2009, 11:55 PM	#26
The_Blur Moderator Drives: 2018 Harley-Davidson Street Bob Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 14,769	The cost difference between a V6 and a V8 is a one-time charge, so your logic is somewhat sound, but you're forgetting the lifelong costs of insurance, fuel, and maintenance that makes the V8 much more costly for someone whose performance goals may not be as ambitious. If someone only wants 500 hp, the V6 can reach that high with less expensive insurance, cheaper fuel, and less oil. The V8 would cost much more over time to hit the same number simply because insurance is higher and the recommended fuel is premium, but let's not ignore how much more oil it takes to keep the engine properly lubricated. A V6 is simply less money in the long run. On the other hand, more can be done with the V8 as far as higher gains. Each modification gets better performance when placed in a high-displacement engine compared to a low-displacement engine. In this category, the V8 is a clear win. An exhaust, for instance, is more likely to produce better gains in a V8 than a V6 when all else is equal. Finally, let's also remember that the V8 can be pushed harder and longer than the V6. There's a lot of good sense when it comes to getting the V6. Let's not knock a good decision. __________________ RDP Motorsport//GEN5DIY//Cultrag Performance//JPSS//Rodgets Chevrolet// Operation Demon//Buy at Invoice//RACECARWEAR RESPECT ALL CARS. LOVE YOUR OWN. warn 145:159 ban

10-22-2009, 12:44 AM	#27
DTM DTMphotography Drives: 10' Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 585	I think 75% of the reason people do exhaust, is for the sound, as for an intake system, that's quite a bit of power that can be felt easily and will make your car run muuuch better! __________________ 2010 2SS/RS: 12.77 @ 111mph (muffler delete) - SOLD

10-22-2009, 01:39 AM	#28
dragonZ28 Drives: 2001 T/A, 2010 2SS/RS, 2006 Z06 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 2,428	You're coming at this form the wrong angle. Proven mods do work, and they work as a team. Intake and headers together will outperform the numbers from both individually added together. Bolt-ons do work and are proven to increase HP and TQ while reducing E.T.s. I can tell you that most bolt-on and cam LS1 cars will beat a supercharged LS1 car. FI is a nice way to get power without having severe driveability hinderances. Not everyone wants to drive a cam-loping, monster that sounds like it's brewing a thunderstorm, but I do. Also, if you are simply looking at peak numbers, you are missing the point. What you really want is nice gains under the curve. You want newfound power in the entire RPM band. Peak numbers don't tell nearly part of the story. Last edited by dragonZ28; 10-22-2009 at 02:07 AM.

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10-21-2009, 10:23 PM	#15
axis Search Ninja Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS A6 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Ark Posts: 7,183	Unfortunately on a NA car, you're stuck with small gains that turn into a overall bigger gains. Ever hear the term "ounces make pounds"? Coming from a turbo car where you can just crank a knob and get 50+whp it takes a little getting use to but these are the facts. Add to it that you're getting the "almost corvette" tax added since it's such a new platform and it is a NEW Camaro. If you want REAL gains, give your new car a MUCH NEEDED diet and put it on the bottle. That will give you 100+whp for less than $500. It will still pass emmisions and won't void your warrany, if you take it off before taking it in. Unless i'm mistaken, there isn't a "nitrous" trigger in the ECU and it won't show up in a Tech II report.

10-21-2009, 10:25 PM	#16
1320junkie Drives: The Imperial Army Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Darkside Posts: 15,742	Folks tend to make the Dyno a godlike item when in reality it's just a calibration tool.